Blog (A5E) A Quick Look At Skills

[ART!]

About expertise dice. What these do is they introduce a mild bell curve (atcually a flattened pyramid curve with one small expertise die) and I like bell/pyramid curves. But adding them to a d20 system seems to be outside the d20 paradigm. To me, expertise dice feel half-assed. Are you sure what you want is not to go to a system that is entirely about random distribution curves? Like 2d10 instead of d20? I can see how the d20 is a sacred cow, but I am not sure expertise dice is the cure. Then again, I have not played with expertise dice. What I have played with is the Wild Die of Savage Worlds, and that works spectacularly well.

I also loathe the Earthdawn phenomenon where you could not roll until you know of all the modifiers because the modifiers changed what kind of dice you should roll. That does seem nopt to be the case here, but I thought it worth mentioning as an example to avoid.

Again, these are simple viewpoints, not demands.

Forgive me if I missed something, but wouldn't these expertise dice be just like the variant proficiency die option in the DMG? If yes, then this expertise die is firmly sticking within the confines of 5E.

 

[Starfox]

Forgive me if I missed something, but wouldn't these expertise dice be just like the variant proficiency die option in the DMG? If yes, then this expertise die is firmly sticking within the confines of 5E.

I was not aware of this option, but I like it. I think this is a good way to use an additional die in that it is always the SAME die. It doesn't suddenly change from d4 to d6 to 2d8 - you know what set of dice you are supposed to roll. And if you don't have proficiency with a certain task and still rolled the proficiency die, it is easy to remove from the total.

 

[Horwath]

Maybe expertise die would be better if it scales automatically like in DMG:
1d4, at 5th level d6, at 9th level d8, at 13th level d10 and at 17th level d12.

spending an extra class resource to increase +2,5 bonus to +3,5 seem too expensive for something that was default in core game.

I think I will house rule expertise dice that way for A5E.

Maybe using both skill dice and expertise dice for skill checks.

 

[Faolyn]

Forgive me if I missed something, but wouldn't these expertise dice be just like the variant proficiency die option in the DMG? If yes, then this expertise die is firmly sticking within the confines of 5E.

It's added to your proficiency bonus, so you get a d20 + attribute mod + proficiency bonus + expertise die.

 

[Darkwynters]

So I have a question: when it comes to skills, are there examples of what you can do with each skill. A few of my gamers mentioned that they like how Pathfinder 2e has rules for Gathering Information or Making an Impression with Diplomacy (ie Persuasion). Have you guys added anything like this to the A5e skill section?

 

[Nebulous]

So I have a question: when it comes to skills, are there examples of what you can do with each skill. A few of my gamers mentioned that they like how Pathfinder 2e has rules for Gathering Information or Making an Impression with Diplomacy (ie Persuasion). Have you guys added anything like this to the A5e skill section?

I would also prefer this. I am not a fan of the entire 5e skill system personally, and would prefer it gutted and revamped somehow, but that's more of a 6e thing, not what I'd expect from LU.

 

[Faolyn]

I would also prefer this. I am not a fan of the entire 5e skill system personally, and would prefer it gutted and revamped somehow, but that's more of a 6e thing, not what I'd expect from LU.

What don't you like about it? Too grainy, not grainy enough, something else?

 

[Starfox]

Musings:

The 5E skill rules are extremely sketchy. This has the advantage that is saves word count and gives the DM a lot of freedom - with the drawback that neither DM nor players know what you can expect to do. The trick here is to present some benchmarks while still preserving as much of the simplicity and flexibility as possible.

Skill rules are important for game balance. If skills are impotent, spellcasters rule. Skills also determine how cinematic the game is because they are mundane and available to all. That spells can break our expectations is expected, but letting skills do the impossible really changes the world.

Something I am learning when playing 5E is the importance of the passive skill value. Players like predictability, to know what they can achieve and when they are taking a risk. As a GM, I prefer to have an element of risk. Its a delicate balance.

 

[VanguardHero]

Skill rules are important for game balance. If skills are impotent, spellcasters rule. Skills also determine how cinematic the game is because they are mundane and available to all. That spells can break our expectations is expected, but letting skills do the impossible really changes the world.

I think The Adventure Zone really highlighted this in one scene where to take out an enemy car the Fighter rolled like 3 Skill Checks and then the Wizard just cast a spell. Impotent Skills give Martials even less to do, and renders so much of the Rogue Class redundant. Double Prof on Stealth means nothing when Pass Without Trace exists.
Pathfinder 2e does powerful skills really well with the scaling proficiency and things people can do at Legendary in skills. Also letting Medicine actually heal out of combat allows a reliable assumption of being at or near full health, which helped with Math Expectations on the design side as well. Especially as someone who loves Martials and hates Casters, I love powerful skills.

 

[Starfox]

I submit a long list of different tasks and skills. I don't expect A5E to use this (or even allow it), it is cannibalized from different sources. But it is a base of discussion on how to formulate what skills can do. Skill Examples (5A) - Hastur