D&D (2024) A realization about Monster Crits and Death Saves

[OB1]

This is why playtesting the no-crits rule without those things is pointless. It shouldn't even be in the UA.

Maybe it's there to test if the monsters need anything extra to make up for the loss of crits? From what I've seen in play, I'd say lower CR monsters don't need any help, but I can't speak intelligently on higher CR monsters. I will say that the new style of monsters post MotM may have been built with this new rule in mind.

But the other thing I've realized by tracking crits and lost crit damage over the 5 encounters I've tested so far is that adding crit damage to DPR calculations is worthless. Crits are too random to have a predictable effect on the outcome of any one encounter.

 

[Charlaquin]

There has been some discussion about what no critting for 1D&D Monsters might mean, but I'm making a "basic rules overview" document and I just realized... Monsters not being allowed to crit means that hitting a downed player is only a single death save fail, not two.

That’s correct, assuming that the wording on death and dying remains the same. There is always the possibility they change that to preserve the “melee hit on a dying target = 2 failed death saves” functionality.

I think I like this? But it is certainly very different from what we are used to.

I’m not really sure. I feel like having to triple-tap a dying PC seems a bit excessive. But on the other hand I don’t have monsters go after dying PCs all that often anyway, so maybe it won’t end up making a huge difference.

 

[Charlaquin]

Right, I forget "important monsters or characters having death saves" is a homebrew style deal in 5e. That I would like to see added - not only to make capture and nonlethal combat easier, but to set up trickier combats and provide moral dilemas to the world.

Important monsters and NPCs having death saves is something the rules explicitly call out as a possibility (though it’s left entirely up to DM discretion which monsters/NPCs should get them). Giving every monster/NPC death saves is technically supported, but definitely unorthodox.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Well I appreciate the effect on death saves in as much as I think newer DMs often end up doing their first crit on a downed player by accident. It is one of those mechanics that involves taking the logical conclusion of multiple rules, but which is not really spelled out anywhere (as I recall) and that people just learn through play.

But my solution would be to have clearer instructions for less knowledgeable DMs, not to eliminate a valuable tool for heightening tension when a knowledgeable DM wants it.

 

[Stalker0]

adding crit damage to DPR calculations is worthless. Crits are too random to have a predictable effect on the outcome of any one encounter.

Its true that from a pure DPR calculation (which is what most CR numbers are based on), crits have almost 0 impact. Even beyond that, the double dice on a single attack is rarely high enough that it truely changes the encounter.... often a high damage roll on a couple of attacks will ultimately provide more threat than 1 crit.

Crits currently have two areas that they provide "real impact".

Getting to the Death Threshold
This is especially true for those big single attack monsters. Past 5ish levels, its nigh impossible for characters to die by the death threshold. Therefore, getting near 0 is just not that scary. The exception to this is the big crit, its the one thing that can put some threat into getting wrecked by a monster.

The Double Death Save
The fact that a crit could take a player with 1 death fail and instantly kill them, means that a player group can never be too comfortable with one of their players down....especially since with 5e movement, a monster could just move over to the downed player and double death fail them.


These tend to be the moments where a PC is supposed to feel its most vulnerable, and so the loss of these threats is hard to replace. If monsters are not adjusted to provide new threat in those areas (or something like the death threshold is changed), than I do think fighters will feel a lot less deadily.

 

[Mistwell]

If this were true I think it would be a deal breaker for me. The double crit is literally the only realistic chance of death I've seen in this game. Without it, I cannot think of a time where any PC would have died.

 

[CleverNickName]

If this were true I think it would be a deal breaker for me. The double crit is literally the only realistic chance of death I've seen in this game. Without it, I cannot think of a time where any PC would have died.

This seems to be intentional. For better or worse, the trend seems to be moving away from character death being a consequence of bad luck or planning, and more toward it being a storytelling element under the full control of the player.

Is that good or bad? Hard to say. I suspect that if you ask that question here on ENWorld, you'll get at least four different answers.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

This seems to be intentional. For better or worse, the trend seems to be moving away from character death being a consequence of bad luck or planning, and more toward it being a storytelling element under the full control of the player.

Is that good or bad? Hard to say. I suspect that if you ask that question here on ENWorld, you'll get at least four different answers.

I think the shame of it is that occasional swingy crit deaths punched above their weight in terms of the feeling of danger. Having your character have a high chance to die is far less important than feeling like your character has a high chance to die in terms of making the game feel exciting and high stakes.

 

[OB1]

Hmmmm, I'm not sure needing to take 3 hits while down is that big of a difference vs taking 2 hits. Ranged and AOE damage already only caused 1 failed save, and there are plenty of monsters with 3 or more attacks a round. I sort of like the idea that if the monster (and DM) wants to kill you in the middle of combat, they really have to commit to it as a strategy. Also, even 1 failed save is scary for players, as they have a 1 in 20 chance of dying on their save attempt at that point.

And another thought. By only having 1 fail from the attack, an intelligent monster might bait the characters into wasting actions trying to save the downed PC, perhaps getting out of position because the monster uses a new unarmed strike to cause the failed death save and then also get to grapple and drag the downed character to another location. If the PC is dead, they don't make as good bait

(Note that I'm not saying there is a right or wrong way to do this at your table, just trying to think through how this changes things in actual play)

 

[Oofta]

I'm going to repeat a question I posted on a separate thread: why do we assume monster don't crit? We know PCs do, but the playtest doesn't mention monsters one way or another. Until we get UA for monsters, I'm making no assumptions.