Blog (A5E) A Sneak Peek At Magic

In this article, we're going to take a look at some of the changes to spells and magic in Level Up. Most of these changes are ease-of-use changes for clarity, but there are some minor structural changes. We'll use fireball as an example of a spell while discussing these changes. Note that this is early in the design process for this part of the game, so things might yet change, and your...

In this article, we're going to take a look at some of the changes to spells and magic in Level Up. Most of these changes are ease-of-use changes for clarity, but there are some minor structural changes. We'll use fireball as an example of a spell while discussing these changes. Note that this is early in the design process for this part of the game, so things might yet change, and your feedback as always will affect that.

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Fireball

3rd-level (evocation, arcane, fire)
Classes: Sorcerer, wizard
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Long (120 feet)
Area: 20-foot-radius sphere
Components: V, S, M (bat guano and sulfur)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Dexterity half

A fiery mote streaks to a point within range and explodes in a burst of flame. The fire spreads around corners and ignites unattended flammable objects. Each creature in the area takes 6d6* fire damage.

Cast at Higher Levels. The damage increases by 1d6 for each spell level over 3rd.

Rare: Ravjahani’s Blackfire. This spell’s silent black flames deal necrotic damage and don’t damage objects or leave marks on bodies. Any nonmagical flames in the area are extinguished. The spell has no vocalized component.

Rare: Katrina’s Improved Fireball. The fireball deals 8d6 fire damage.



Schools of Magic​

The first thing you might notice are the words under the spell name. For fireball, those words are evocation and fire. These are the schools of magic to which fireball beyonds.

Wait! I hear you say. Fire isn't a school of magic! Well, this is the first of our changes. The 8 classical schools of magic, as defined by wizards long past and handed down in formal tradition, all exist as you know them: evocation, divination, necromancy, and so on.

But that formal classification isn't the only way magic-users throughout the ages have labelled spells. In the multiverse there is a near-infinite array of spell schools; some are based on elemental sources (like fire, water, shadow, plants, beasts, and so on), while others are based on effects (healing, compulsion, and more).

The classical schools are rigidly defined; a spell can only belong to one classical school. Other schools are not as strict, however; a spell can belong to multiple non-classical schools. These schools are a tool which you can use to create spell lists, whether they be classical schools, or you want to give that red dragon access to all fire spells, or you need to simply list all fire spells in order to plan the spell choices of your fire-themed sorcerer. They're there to use as you wish.

In addition to the eight classical schools, Level Up contains the following list of magical schools: acid, affliction, air, arcana, attack, beasts, chaos, cold, communication, control, displacement, divine, earth, enhancement, evil, fear, fire, force, good, healing, knowledge, law, lightning, movement, nature, necrotic, negation, obscurement, planar, plants, poison, prismatic, protection, psychic, radiant, scrying, senses, shadow, shapechanging, sound, storm, summoning, technological, teleportation, terrain, thunder, transformation, utility, water, weaponry, weather.

Let's look at a couple of other spells and how they're classified.

Fire shield -- 4th-level (evocation, arcane, cold, fire, protection)

Locate creature -- 4th-level (divination, arcane, divine, beasts, plants, knowledge)

Sleet storm -- 2nd-level (conjuration, arcane, nature, cold, nature, weather)

Spell Stats​

You'll see that the spell has more information in the stat block up top. This give you lots of information about the spell at a glance. You might also notice that spell ranges have been standardized; common distances include short range (30 feet or less), medium range (60 feet or less), or long range (120 feet or less), as well as self, touch, and special ranges.

The components entry has changed slightly, too. V,S,M are used in the same way, but their meanings have been expanded to Vocalized, Seen, and Material. Different spell casters may cast spells differently -- a Vocalized spell is apparent to creatures that can hear, but might be a bard's song, a wizard's incantation, or even a musical instrument.

We make mention of material spell components to add flavor to the game, but if there is no price listed for those components, they are simply considered part of your spellcasting pouch.

Rare Spells​

One fun thing we're introducing is the concept of rare spells. Not all spells have rare versions. You can't choose rare spells out of the rulebook; you have to find them. They might be found in a treasure hoard, or in the depths of an ancient library; a rare spell might be the motivation for a quest. These rare spells -- which are all named after a famous spellcaster -- are better than the 'regular' versions, and are highly sought after. If you know a rare spell, you can memorize it instead of the regular version.

New Spells​

Of course, we have a whole bunch of new spells to add to those in the core rulebook, but you’ll have to wait to see those!


*Let us know what you think of the 6d6 fire damage! We haven't changed most spells fundamentally (other than clarity rewrites) but this is one of a few that we're considering.

Continue reading...
 

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For the most part, you can always prepare more spells than you can cast, assuming you have a high spellcasting attribute. At lower levels, even Arcane Recovery won't let you cast more than you can prepare.

There have always been a zillion spells in D&D. Back in 2e they put out seven volumes of spells collected from those that had been published in their books, boxed sets, and in Dragon and Dungeon magazines. And in a lot of those cases, those spells were variants of each other. Many would even say "this spell is just like such and such, except that it does X instead."

So basically, all this does is cut out a lot of wasted text. There's no reason to have a full spell block when you have basically the same spell with a few tweaks.
That is what I'm saying. The person I'm responding to wants a return to Cure Light Wounds and Cure Moderate Wounds. I would get rid of HEAL as a separate spell. Just make Cure Wounds say "When cast at 6th level.... and what follows is the heal text."
 

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ccooke

Adventurer
Going by what we've seen, the rarer spells don't have the same names as the base spells. For example, one of the sample rare spells was Ravjahani’s blackfire, which sounds nothing like the fireball it's base on.

So if you have a monster that has Innate Spellcasting and can cast fireball, it can cast fireball, straight out of the book, not a rare named variant on it. The only difference that LU is going to have here is if you have that fireball inflict 8d6 damage (5e) or 6d6 damage (LU).
Which is my point.

In this one example, you have a significant difference in damage output between monsters using fireball in normal 5e and LU. That's with only a small number of spells shown, but the intent is clear to provide essentially an entirely rewritten spellbook. It will not take many rewritten spells to make using base 5e monsters with spellcasting unpredictable - possibly too weak, possibly too strong - in LU. This can have a big knock-on effect in how confident people are mixing the systems, or running non-LU material with LU rules.

If this doesn't bother anyone using or playing LU, then fine. But it seems to be a direct contradiction to the stated goals of the system, and therefore worth sharing.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
In this one example, you have a significant difference in damage output between monsters using fireball in normal 5e and LU. That's with only a small number of spells shown, but the intent is clear to provide essentially an entirely rewritten spellbook.
No it’s not. 99.99% of the spells work exactly the same way.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
For the most part, you can always prepare more spells than you can cast, assuming you have a high spellcasting attribute. At lower levels, even Arcane Recovery won't let you cast more than you can prepare.

There have always been a zillion spells in D&D. Back in 2e they put out seven volumes of spells collected from those that had been published in their books, boxed sets, and in Dragon and Dungeon magazines. And in a lot of those cases, those spells were variants of each other. Many would even say "this spell is just like such and such, except that it does X instead."

So basically, all this does is cut out a lot of wasted text. There's no reason to have a full spell block when you have basically the same spell with a few tweaks.
That's fine & all. I agree that being able to upcast most spells is a good thing, but upcasting cure wounds as written is problematic as the complete nullification of wotc's own heal kit depend variant rule shows. We know how splitting cure wounds worked making it a good example of an alternate path to avoid the problem, but that doesn't mean that there can't be other solutions that involve fiddling with how the spell works.
 

aco175

Legend
I do not find there to be a problem if the LU spells are more powerful or less powerful. I tend to boost the monster abilities already to account for the PC power compared to monsters they are supposed to face and be challenged.

It would be cool to increase the spells by having a lesser and greater spell, but casting at a higher level is mostly the same. I was thinking that at 3rd level you get fireball, but can also cast it at 2nd level and do 4d6 fire, or target only a 10x10ft area and do 6d6 damage. A greater version of 5th level you now have, but cannot cast until you are high enough level. The greater version can add some damage, but be modified in other ways like a greater range or radius.

The lesser version is a bit more powerful, but you cannot gain it until you are 5th and have the normal version. This might take away some of the power of the lowered version.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
That is what I'm saying. The person I'm responding to wants a return to Cure Light Wounds and Cure Moderate Wounds. I would get rid of HEAL as a separate spell. Just make Cure Wounds say "When cast at 6th level.... and what follows is the heal text."
Well, heal is a bit more than just a leveled-up cure wounds, since it combines that and at least lesser restoration. But I do get what you're saying. I suppose if we really wanted to reduce the number of spells, you could just have heal, as follows:

1st level slot: heal X hp.
2nd level slot: heal 2X hp or cure Y conditions. (includes lesser restoration)
3rd level slot: heal 3X hp or cure Y conditions.
4th level slot: heal 4X hp and cure Y conditions.
5th level slot: heal 5X hp and cure Y conditions.

While renaming greater restoration to just restoration and having it keep it's ability to remove magical afflictions.

I'm thinking about restarting my project of coming up with At Higher Levels for all the spells, just to see how it works.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
Which is my point.

In this one example, you have a significant difference in damage output between monsters using fireball in normal 5e and LU. That's with only a small number of spells shown, but the intent is clear to provide essentially an entirely rewritten spellbook. It will not take many rewritten spells to make using base 5e monsters with spellcasting unpredictable - possibly too weak, possibly too strong - in LU. This can have a big knock-on effect in how confident people are mixing the systems, or running non-LU material with LU rules.

If this doesn't bother anyone using or playing LU, then fine. But it seems to be a direct contradiction to the stated goals of the system, and therefore worth sharing.
In 5e, the stated spell damage in the DMG for an area spell of 3rd level is 6d6. Fireball and lightning bolt break that guideline because they are iconic spells and the designers wanted to make them special. At the moment, there's no evidence that they're nerfing the damage of other spells.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
That's fine & all. I agree that being able to upcast most spells is a good thing, but upcasting cure wounds as written is problematic as the complete nullification of wotc's own heal kit depend variant rule shows. We know how splitting cure wounds worked making it a good example of an alternate path to avoid the problem, but that doesn't mean that there can't be other solutions that involve fiddling with how the spell works.
That's a variant rule if you want a deadlier game. Just like 8-hour short rests and week-long long rests are variant rules for deadlier games. It doesn't actually nullify anything--especially since you have a limited number of spell slots.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
It would be cool to increase the spells by having a lesser and greater spell, but casting at a higher level is mostly the same. I was thinking that at 3rd level you get fireball, but can also cast it at 2nd level and do 4d6 fire, or target only a 10x10ft area and do 6d6 damage. A greater version of 5th level you now have, but cannot cast until you are high enough level. The greater version can add some damage, but be modified in other ways like a greater range or radius.

The lesser version is a bit more powerful, but you cannot gain it until you are 5th and have the normal version. This might take away some of the power of the lowered version.
Honestly, I think that just having the option to pick 6d6 damage in a 20-foot burst or 8d6 damage in a 5- or 10-foot burst would be fine as options for a 3rd level spell.

Part of D&D's thing is that you don't gradually increase your abilities--you hit a new level and all of a sudden, you get new powers. Having fireball be a thing you suddenly can learn when you hit 5th level as a sorcerer or wizard, rather than slowly grow into by having lesser and then greater versions, is fine. Having that plus some ability to fine-tune it would be even better.

Edit: I think "delayed blast" should be a higher-level option for more damage-dealing spells. And if you're going to have lesser and greater versions, they should be at least two levels lower and higher. Get rid of burning hands and call it lesser fireball, if you must, but having a 2nd-level version of a 3rd-level spells just seems a bit fiddly and unnecessary to me.
 


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