A Tournament of Cosmic Propotions! (Immortal's Handbook Rules)


First Post
This thread is too big for my little brain to process.

So, basically, you're saying "This is my really really super uber strong guy, who'd you want to make to fight him?"

He's not Neo's character (well, it's Neo's redesign, but still). he's an NPC published in the Immortals Handbook: Epic Bestiary Volume I by Craig Cochrane, known on these forums as Upper_Krust.

One of the adventure seeds in Alabaster's write-up is that he holds this tournament.

And, Neo, the magic thing isn't really about damage per se, so much as being a complete out-of-context problem for warriors in this game. It's the reason the wizard class just flat-out doesn't exist in my own campaign setting. You're familiar with just how overbearing a wizard can be if they want to be right? At this level, with creative use of epic spells, let alone Boccob having infinite spells plus knowing all spells, there's theoretically nothing that could defeat him.

Of course, that really goes back to the epic spell system, mostly, (which also doesn't exist in my own setting...)

If you play Boccob as nothing but a blaster, he'll be fine, but there is a LOT more than that that he's capable of. :|

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Also Here's a compilation of all the variant rules we're using for this tournament.

The first thing that originally got me the idea to start work on this tournament aside from the "High Epic" adventure seed idea on 27 of the Beastiary pdf.

Improved Spell Mastery
Prerequisite: Ability to cast the maximum level spells in at least one spell casting class, Spellcraft 24 ranks and the appropriate Knowledge or Perform (bard) skill of 24 ranks. Four Metamagic feats
Benefit: The first time this feat is taken it grants the benefit of one free level of Metamagic per round, which you may spontaneously apply to any spell you can cast. It also stacks with existing metamagic development. Furthermore, when you select this feat it also grants you one spell slot per day up to one level higher than the highest-level spell you can cast in a particular class. If the level of the spell is 10 or higher it is considered an epic spell and must be prepared as such described in the FeanMerc System. Each time you take improved spell mastery you gain one level higher than your current maximum for casting epic spells. For example a 21st level wizard who has taken this feat 1 time could cast up to 10th level (epic) spells, or spells who’ve had their effective level raised to 10 via Metamagic feats. He would also gain 1 levels of Metamagic each round which he could use to apply to any spell he could cast without raising it’s effective spell level at all but still gaining the benefits. Bonus spells apply as listed on table 1-35 in the Epic Level Handbook.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times, its effects stack. A character must have taken this feat enough times to cast spells over 10th level or whatever their current maximum is. For example a wizard would have to take this feat 6 times to cast 15th level spells, whilst a paladin would have to take it 11 times to cast 15th level spells. The paladin (11 free levels per round) would however have more levels of Metamagic per round than the wizard (6 free levels) in said example. When using the free Metamagic granted by this feat, you could make a 9th level spell as powerful as a 10th level or higher spell, but without needing to prepare it as an epic spell, since it’s free Metamagic it still consumes only a 9th level spell slot as long as you don’t exceed your free Metamagic quota for the round. You may choose to exceed your quota with Metamagic must sacrifice an appropriately higher level spell slot (which is also granted by this feat in a way giving you a two for one deal) but need not prepare it as an epic spell. “Epic” spells are really just spells that casters design themselves piece by piece.

Improved Power Mastery
Prerequisite: Ability to cast the maximum level power available in at least one psionic manifesting class, Psicraft 24 Ranks, Knowledge (Psionics) 24 ranks. Four metapsionic feats.
Benefit: The first time this feat is taken you gain +2 free power points which may only be applied to the cost of manifesting powers with metapsionic feats. This feat also stacks with existing Metapsionic development. This feat also allows access to Epic psionic powers, but only once the effective level of the maximum power known is at least 10. (a psychic warrior for example, would have to take this feat 4x to begin designing epic level psionic powers) Using the same seeds described in the ELH, and the rules described in the FeanMerc System.
Special: This feat can be taken multiple times, it's effects stack. All other limitations to psionic powers, not being able to spend more PP on augmentation/metapsionics, than your current Manifester Level, still apply. Unless of course you've taken a feat or some ability for that to.

I was also working on a version to apply the same concept to Martial maneuvers but I decided to make epic maneuvers a bit different, basing access to specific epic maneuver schools or "seeds" based on the cannon theme behind the discipline on which it is based. That is still largely a work in progress. More on that later.

Also made some changes to the metamagic freedom feat as listed below:

Meta-Magic FreedomYou can stack the same meta-magic feat multiple times.

Prerequisites: You can apply the same meta-magic feat any number of times to the same spell, provided you have a spell slot of adequate level or sufficient free levels of Meta-Magic from Improved Spell Mastery. For example, you could use a 9th level spell slot to cast a triple empowered fireball at +150% damage. You could even use three of your "free" levels of metamagic to enhance the 9th level fireball further and maximize and quicken it using your "free" levels of meta-magic. For all mechanical purposes, even though the spell is a Triple Empowered Maximized Quickened Fireball, it would still only consume a 9th level spell slot and would count as a 9th level spell for purposes of Spell DC and any other purposes.
Normal: Without this feat, you can only apply the same meta-magic feat once to a given spell.
Special: A Spell can only be quickened more than once a round with the free levels of meta-magic granted from Improved Spell Mastery (see page 1 of this thread). In any given round you may cast one spell that is not quickened, one spell that is prepared as quickened, and any number of quickened spells, each using four free levels of meta-magic from your Improved Spell Mastery quota for that round. (Also don't forget about the Improved Meta-Magic feat from the ELH/d20SRD which can be used to reduce quicken spell to a +1 per application instead of +4)
Multiple quickened spells happen simultaneously so you cannot teleport to a location, cast a fireball, then teleport away again.

Unerring weapons have been changed to +36 and instead of allowing hits on anything but a natural 1 it simply allows the weapon to swing vs. the targets touch AC which at this level of play will still be significantly lower than their normal AC.

Also, before we Spectre/Belzamus came up with his new method for VSCs we tried to figure out other ways of making immortal combat less like a game of rocket launcher tag. I first ran into this problem back when i first got my copy of the IH using the exact rules as they are published in the pdfs. I was running a ECL 130 Adventure and I noticed in combat that the Fighter of the party was Doing insane amounts of damage far outshadowing the rest of the party in DPR (damage per round). Now I am not a complete idiot and I did notice the characters damage output before the actual adventure so I came up with a patchwork solution in the form of an epic spell seed.

SEED: Lifewell
Conjuration (Healing)
Spellcraft DC: 30
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Minute
Range: Touch
Target: Two Living Creatures.
Duration: 20 Hours or until lifewell reaches 0 (see below)
Saving Throw: Yes (Harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (Harmless)

This Spell adds the total hit points of every target, after applying magical items and effects, and combines them all into one pool. Whenever a target takes damage of any kind it is given instead to the HP pool. When the Hit point pool runs dry the Life-well is immediately sundered and all targets under the effect of the Lifewell become staggered (disabled, can only take one move or standard action per turn) and drop to 0 hp. If One of the targets is subject to a death spell, death from massive damage, or other death effect their connection with the life-well is severed and their total contributed HP are immediately subtracted from the lifewell. If this brings the total below 0 the lifewell ends and all participants are staggered (see above). If the lifewell remains positive through the death of one or more of it’s participants, it will remain in effect until all participants are dead or the lifewell’s total HP reaches 0 or less.
To add another target within range increase the Spellcraft DC by +4.

Using this method in conjuction with an epic ritual that combined the HP of Five Immortals (100HD greater, 119hd Greater, 70HD Intermediate, 60 HD Intermediate) and a 432 HD Teratoid Paragon Tyrannosaurus Rex for a combined HP total of like 725K HP. Even with a HP well that huge vs. the final encounter combat still only lasted 3 rounds. Rocket launcher Tag FTL.

In addition to that seed I've also introduced an HP Multiplier rule for lower immortals (The sidereals and eternals have them, so why not gods to?)

Demigods get x1 HP (d20s HD)
Lesser gods get x2 HP (D20 HD)
Intermediate gods get x3 HP (D20 HP)
Greater gods get x4 HP (d20 HD)
Elder ones Get X4 hp (D100 HD)
Old Ones get X6 HP (D100 HD)
First Ones get x8 HP (D100 HD)
Demiurges get X10 for stage 1, X100 for stage 2, x500 for stage 3 and finally timelords who get x1000 per HD (d1000s for HD)

Finally there came Belzamus' method of reducing the damage granted by Virtual Size Catagories which greatly helped. There were a few more abilities which stuck out like a sore thumb and that was the Cosmic and Transcendental Versions of Weapon Specialization. They have been re-designed as follows:

Cosmic Weapon Specialization:
Your Power is Unearthly
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +70, Epic Weapon Focus, Greater
Weapon Focus, Uncanny Weapon Focus, Weapon Focus.
Benefit: You may add a total of 10 times your Divine bonus as additional damage to any successful attack with your chosen weapon. This ability is multiplied by your crit. multiplier when you score a critical hit.

Transcendental Weapon Specialization:
Prerequisites: BAB +130, Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon
Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization,
Perfect Weapon Focus, Perfect Weapon Specialization, Weapon Focus,
Weapon Specialization, Unearthly Weapon Focus, Unearthly Weapon
Benefit: You may add a total of 100 times your divine bonus to any successful damage roll with your chosen weapon. This damage overlaps the bonus damage from Cosmic Weapon Specialization it does not stack with it. This damage is multiplied when you score a successful critical hit.

Also we adjusted the levels of power at which the Crit abilities become available for use.

For crits/mults here's the chain of power:
feat - crit threat range doubled (improved crit)
epic feat - Criticals increase as they do with Imrproved critical multiplier published in IH
divine ability - Greater critical epic feat has been bumped to a divine ability. Triples threat range
cosmic ability - Greater critical multiplier has been bumped up to a Cosmic ability from epic feat for sake of balancing games. Critical multipliers change according to the greater critical multiplier epic feat published in the IH.

I think that's about all of em. Let me know if I missed any Belzamus.
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First Post
Well, I think that was most of what we decided on. I don't think we ever finished fully defining what Abrogate and the Abatement abilities do, since their descriptions are so vague.

I still suggest DR, Fast Healing, and Regeneration (and Force Field) being multiplied by the Immortal's HP multiplier, also.

And, Improved Spell mastery seems head-spinningly powerful. I never liked the open-ended creating any spell you want aspect of epic play, it's way too open to abuse.

Did I ever show you the metamagic feats and divines I did for this system? I find that they balance things much better than allowing infinite stacking and limitless quickened spells. I can't remember if the subject ever came up in the old thread.


Well, I think that was most of what we decided on. I don't think we ever finished fully defining what Abrogate and the Abatement abilities do, since their descriptions are so vague.

I don't recall us ever deciding on anything regarding those abilities. Suggestions?

I still suggest DR, Fast Healing, and Regeneration (and Force Field) being multiplied by the Immortal's HP multiplier, also.

Hmm, that's actually not a bad idea. I had originally suggested adding descriptors to a given immortals damage reduction based on their subtypes and making the default ratio for DR to be 1/1 HD rounded to the nearest multiple of 5, but yeah that works to and would probably scale a lot better.

Speaking of scaling better, I use a slightly different version of force field from the one in the IH, instead of 50 points per divine ability It grants 10 points of force field and 1 point of replenishment per divine bonus per ability. for example if you were DVR 7 and took it twice you would have 140 points of force field and it would regenerate at 14 points a round.

And, Improved Spell mastery seems head-spinningly powerful. I never liked the open-ended creating any spell you want aspect of epic play, it's way too open to abuse.

I have to agree there, but I originally made it so powerful for a way to get casters to start to compare to fighter types in raw damage output. Also to see if the two systems (Feanmerc and IH) could work together under a single unifying system. They can, but man it's complicated and very powerful.

Did I ever show you the metamagic feats and divines I did for this system? I find that they balance things much better than allowing infinite stacking and limitless quickened spells. I can't remember if the subject ever came up in the old thread.

I don't believe you did.


First Post
Let's see...

For Abrogate, the way I like to run it is that each opponent within the Immortal's Divine Aura has either their most powerful ability negated (in the case that no information is known) or the Immortal with the ability can select an ability that they know the opponent possesses. Maybe some sort of knowledge related check ought to be added there...

For both Abatements, that's tougher because one is a feat and one is a Divine. Maybe, for their initial version, have it just be the single first attack each round, then make a second ability in the chain, bumped up a tier, that makes it apply to the first attack from each opponent each round?

On Force Field, to spell it out a little clearer, the way I do it is to have each instance give: 50 x Divine Rank x HP multiplier, and it regens at 1/50th of its total value.

So, let's see, a Demigod (ECl 60/CR 40) Divine Rank 6, would get a 300 point force field that regains 6 points per round. Given how expensive Divines are for him, I'd say that's about balanced.

For a Greater Deity (ECL 160/CR 105) Divine Rank 16, it would have a 3,200 point barrier, regain 64, for 1 Divine. Again, I think that's right about where it should be.

And, to take it even farther, a First One (ECL 480/CR 320) at Divine Rank 48 would get a 19,200 point barrier, regaining 384 points per round -- which is nothing, but blowing 10 Divines on Force Field is perfectly reasonable at that point, and 192,000 would actually be a decent increase in protection for the investment.

And, here's my metamagic stuff for you to look at. Note that with these in play, stacking metamagic no longer exists and Quickened spells are limited to 1 per round barring abilities that allow multiple Standard Actions. It also has the benefit of working perfectly with nothing bu Automatic Metamagic and not need to deal with higher-level spell slots.

Again, though, I'm not a fan of epic spellcasting, so this is just what I use instead.

THough, just a random thought I had, what if you changed the epic spellcasting rules to disallow mitigating factors and allow AMM to work with them instead? (Or does AMM Capacity already work with Epic Spells? I can't remember.)


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One thing I never really went into much detail on the last time I made this thread was the reasoning why Alabaster decided to come out of his thousand year hibernation in the first place. The IH Bestiary gives a small two paragraph description on Alabaster's history, a history which I have decided to expand upon a little.

Alabaster began his life as a human warrior. He was exceptional in every way and none could surpass his skill with a sword. He rose to power quickly and it wasn't long before he caught the attention of a Primal Vampiress. Her name has been lost to the ages, but legends say that she was an extremely powerful psionicist who hated all gods, and had already slain a few. She seduced Alabaster and he quickly ascended to great heights of power at her sight, as both her champion and lover.

The two of them eventually lead a bloody and unholy crusade that laid low several ancient deities. Alabaster event went so far as to dominate one of the immortals and Imprison him inside an Orichalcum Blade and the legendary Godsend was born. From there the godslaughter ran rampant and enitire Pantheons fell before Alabaster. The gods began searching for a weakness to the Paragon Vampire, so finally, they summoned an ancient abomination, the Amidah at the time, and sent it against Alabaster. Though Alabaster and his Lover were victorious over this mighty foe, his love was slain during the battle. Alabaster became the new Amidah and sought revenge on the gods who released this foul creature and saw his lover slain. This only cemented Alabaster's hatred of gods even further and he alone went on a campaign to slaughter the rest of the ancient pantheon. No matter how many gods fell before him Alabaster began to realize, nothing he could do would bring back his lover. Despair took him then, and he created his own demi-plane. He now dwells in the citadel of steel in the Graveyard of Swords. Many champions,even gods of war, have journeyed there to test themselves against Alabasters' prowess, and just as many now lie buried here, for he has never known defeat....until recently.

The following piece of fluff was written by my friend and fellow DM in this endeavor, Kapi.

Challnge of the Godslayer

A cold wind blew through the plane of swords, howling through the many hilts and blades that protrude from the ground. Long forgotten heroes, and long dead gods made their final stand in this place, and were forever put to rest. In an instant, a lone figure appeared among the ruins and rubble. A child, with shock-white hair blowing in the breeze. His muscled form covered in a grey and black garb, which made not a sound as he gazed around. He crouched low to the ground as he scanned the nearby area, and was pleasantly surprised that he had already been spotted. A great gust blew, trailing the fifteen foot glowing red scarf behind him as he stood defiantly. He felt the gaze upon him, he knew he was now a moment from death itself made manifest.

"Why have you come here, godling?" The voice echoed out from seemingly nowhere. "Come to die like the rest?" it added in with a chuckle.

A smirk creased the cherubic face of Genji. "Kakate Koi-o!" He yelled out to the plane itself, his feet shifting into proper stance, muscles cording like twisted steel.

The lone figure stepped out from behind a small mound of remains, longswords spinning about his form delicately, glinting from what little light permeated this dark realm. "You seek death." Alabaster said, smiling. "Then you have come to the right place!" He shouted, shifting forward through the air at a breakneck pace with fangs beared, his face twisted into a snarl. Godsend came down at the childlike form, sure to shear him cleanly in two. It passed cleanly through the after-image left behind by the God of Speed. He whirled immediately, expecting the attack from behind.. but none came. He gazed around, his acute vision picking up on the smallest of movements up to a mile away, and yet he could still not see where this godling had moved to. Had he become ethereal?

The thought barely had time to register before a sonic boom blasted through the skies. Alabaster had enough time to see just the briefest of images of a new challenger, covered head to toe in a black gi, this one older than the last. Just the briefest second to recognize the opponent, before a fist smashed into his jaw, sending the ancient vampire sprawling hundreds of feet away. One of the dancing swords, named Steel Hydra, swept into a series of cutting swaths, focused upon the cocky opponent, each strike being redirected or all-together avoided by Genji. He burst into motion, a speeding blur that only the most exceptional of gods could even hope to see, moving over a mile's distance in the span of the blink of an eye. His momentum stopped as quickly as it began, but Steel Hydra remained. It matched his speed move for move, turn for turn. He countered, pushing the blade in other directions, parried with every maneuver he could utilize, and even used a technique he hadn't had the time to perfect. It came in again, slicing deeply into the god, fresh blood spraying out in all directions as it sheared him from stem to stern. Then the illusion faded, a sliced piece of paper wafting within the cool breeze. It cut in at unbelieveable speed, and scored a small nick on the side of his cheek. Blood didn't have time to begin flowing from the wound before a loud "KIAI!" was shouted, the open palm smashing into the blade and scattering it into hundreds of pieces.

Alabaster rose from his impromptu seat, and willed his sword to reform next to him. He could smell the blood in the air, and how long it had been! His eyes narrowed, he called out into the dark "Come then, Godling! Come face your demise, and we shall see who is the fastest!"

The last syllable proved the end of this fight. Genji was there in less than the blink of an eye. His fists lashed out in an undecipherable blur, his speed unmatched by any who had come before him. Each blow landed solidly, crashing into the vampire's thick skull. Genji swayed and weaved, each strike pushing Alabaster further one way, just to be knocked back into another waiting punch from the other side. From an onlooker's perspective, the vampire was surrounded by a grey, black, and glowing red whirlwind of fury, kicking up dust and sending everything nearby far away with a single burst of it's raw power. Only the god of speed remained, surrounded by a green mist that he knew to be Alabaster, defeated and broken. Another burst of speed brought him to the black coffin, to which the fog would return and reform the mighty vampire. Genji laughed, childish and innocent into the unhallowed plane. He used a single finger, and punched a small dent into the coffin, Pressure stapling a note written on Rokugani reed-paper onto the coffin. He glanced to the new sword in his other hand, Steel Hydra by name. His smile never left his face as he slid it into one of the many pocket-dimensions he kept on his person.

"See you again soon, great Godslayer." He whispered into the air around him, and then was gone just as quickly as he arrived.

Also here is a link for a picture of Genji if anyone wants to know what he looks lie.

At the time of Alabaster's defeat Genji was only a 130th level Intermediate Deity. That's the entire reason why I decided to redesign Alabaster using the Dicefreaks Vampire template and make him even tougher. Also the reason why I decided to redesign Belzamus' Godslayer PRC because him being a 117th level fighter just seemed a little to vanilla-flavored.

In fact, if Genji had never defeated Alabaster more than likely he would still be moping around the Citadel of Steel, wallowing in sorrow and despair. So in a way this is all Genji's fault. Ironically after the fight Genji ends up returning to the Graveyard of Swords to return Steel Hydra to Alabaster personally. The two actually end up becoming friends and that's when Alabaster & Genji proposed the Idea of the tournament to the Mercane in Union. The Mercane agree to provide safe seating and magical scrying screens for the audience, but the actual tournament itself it to take place on the Graveyard of Swords.

So far the gods who have signed up for the tournament include:
1. Tempus Foehammer (he was the first one in line lol)
2. Corellon Larethian
3. Gruumsh
4. Andrew Sendant, Homebrewed god of Peace and Good (Technically he was signed up against his will, a small trick played by Genji)
5. The Spider Queen (Avatar of Lolth)
6. The Red Knight of Tempus
7. Perfection, a Paragon Awakened Orichalcum Golem
8. Xor'Chylic, an Ulatharid Soulknife champion of Ilsensine
9. Boccob
10. Ryuushin Genji Ryo, homebrewed God of skill and time
11. Belzamus' Giant Battle Ascendant (his name and stat-block are unavailable to me at the moment)

So yeah as you can see we still have 21 spots open so if anyone has any suggestions for additional combatants please let me know.
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First Post
Also, Neo, just thought of something. About the HP multiplier.

Originally, the entire reason the Sidereals and up get it is because they're always considered to be on their home plane when it's beneficial to them. The multipliers you've added in now kind of complicate that a bit.


Just curious, but is Serpent Kingdoms allowed?

I'm actually not familiar with it. Got a link with more info?

Oh and Belzamus, I don't use the rules for Sidereals as always being treated on their home plane, but they do get the multipliers. Their HP is doubled yet again on their actual home plane.

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