A Tournament of Cosmic Propotions! (Immortal's Handbook Rules)

Neoiceshroom

Banned
Banned
This thread started on Nov 22 and you wait *two* months practically to spring on us that this is going to be played as an in person game at Dragoncon?? And then on top of that, when your three main players and posters aside from yourself tell you we can't make it, you remain adamant on the subject. What is that all about??

Not only is such a crazy, high level game a seriously bad idea to run in person with people you don't really know, but if Buug, Bel and I don't make it, which sounds very likely, I highly doubt you'll find many people who A) Know D&D at this high of a level, 2) have heard about IH, Three) know the system as well as we all do and D) would know the combantants we've created well enough to want to play em.

Bottomline as Buug said above, this sounds increasing like you be playing with yourself.

Quite possibly. I honestly wasn't expecting such an adverse reaction to my staging of this event.

When it comes to this event it may well be possible that there may be a better way of going about playing this out than in person, gaming in person has simply always been my preferred play-style and I figured since I have worked so hard on this project for so long I at least deserved the comfort of my own preferences. The problem with that however, is that it neglects the other good folks who have made contributions to this project. It was a terribly selfish decision of me and for that I apologize.

It may be a better idea to simply host the final round of the tournament or perhaps the semi-final and finale as live events at Dragoncon. Think about it, this thread is at appox. 4900 views at the time of this post and even if Buugi, Belz & EMG cannot attend DragonCon this year, I'm sure at least a few of the hundreds of potential spectators to this thread will be in attendance and what a pleasure it shall be for them to not only be able to view the finale in real-time, but get a chance to meet the man who was the driving force behind it all, namely, myself.

Opinions anyone? Suggestions? I'm certainly not beyond reason at this point, I've come too far to let a selfish decision destroy the momentum behind such a potentially awesome project.
 

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Buugipopuu

First Post
You overestimate the value of the views counter. 5k views for a thread with nearly 200 posts doesn't imply hundreds of viewers. Thirty or so people clicking on it every other time there's a new post (given the frequency with which this thread is updated, I wouldn't expect anyone who cares to check much less frequently) would generate 5k views by now. And three of those thirty people have already said 'no'. Dungeons and Dragons isn't much of a spectator sport without players anyway.
 

Neoiceshroom

Banned
Banned
You overestimate the value of the views counter. 5k views for a thread with nearly 200 posts doesn't imply hundreds of viewers. Thirty or so people clicking on it every other time there's a new post (given the frequency with which this thread is updated, I wouldn't expect anyone who cares to check much less frequently) would generate 5k views by now. And three of those thirty people have already said 'no'. Dungeons and Dragons isn't much of a spectator sport without players anyway.

I concur. However, Dragoncon is a long ways off yet and I honestly think this thread may well gain the attention of some important people, or rather I hope it will.

Anyway Buugi, I appreciate all your help my friend but I honestly feel as though you have done more than enough work and I am yet to decide on exactly which of your contenders I will or will not be using for this tournament.

Currently as far as working on the system as whole, the biggest blockade of progress for me personally, is the simple fact that I am yet to find an epic spell/power/maneuver system that has some semblance of Balance.

In my opinion, the best two systems I have seen thus far are FeanMerc and a system very similar to the one Belzamus uses where each Epic FX ability (spells/powers/meldshaping etc) is obtainable as an epic feat.

I think I will take some time to weigh the pros and cons of each and eventually come to a decision regarding which one should be used for this tournament. Until then, I am certainly willing to listen to the suggestions or opinions of ANYONE who is well educated and experienced with epic-level play.
 

Buugipopuu

First Post
I thought that taking a feat to learn each Epic spell was a good idea, but then Anyfeat rears its highly adaptable head. A big problem is that many abilities haven't been designed with Anyfeat in mind. If you could take a feat to learn an Epic Spell, then Anyfeat would give you the ability to make up a new Epic Spell whenever you felt like it, possibly with loads of mitigating factors that basically amounts to 'doesn't work in any situation other than the one I'm in right now'. It'd be close to Alter Reality* in functionality.

*Incidentally, I'd prefer it if Alter Reality were harder to obtain and Ex, rather than Su, since Ex fits the flavour better.
 

Evilmonkeygod

First Post
Couldn't one say that the epic feat to learn an epic spell can not be duplicated via Anyfeat?

Perhaps base such on how intimately personal the crafting, creation, etc of each epic spell is, and thus Anyfeat is unable to duplicate it.

What I like a bout Fenamerc, for those unaware of the system, is the ability to craft a cool spell via the combination of normal non-epic spells.

So if you wanted a Fireball that after it went off, animated any it killed, and held fast any it did not, you would take Fireball, Animate Dead, and Hold Monster, and combine them into one spell.
 

Buugipopuu

First Post
Obvious patches to abilities like that are inelegant. Ideally the ability would be worded in such a way as to make in-combat Anyfeating impossible without explicitly prohibiting it. Such as requiring a period of research and/or experimentation before the spell becomes usable.
 

Neoiceshroom

Banned
Banned
I thought that taking a feat to learn each Epic spell was a good idea, but then Anyfeat rears its highly adaptable head. A big problem is that many abilities haven't been designed with Anyfeat in mind. If you could take a feat to learn an Epic Spell, then Anyfeat would give you the ability to make up a new Epic Spell whenever you felt like it, possibly with loads of mitigating factors that basically amounts to 'doesn't work in any situation other than the one I'm in right now'. It'd be close to Alter Reality* in functionality.

Frankly, as both a DM and a player, I am okay with this because Anyfeat is not a feat, it's a divine ability. In my brain at least, it makes perfect logical sense for divine beings to be able to make up epic spells on the spot and keep on rollin' like it ain't nothin'... they ARE gods after all.

*Incidentally, I'd prefer it if Alter Reality were harder to obtain and Ex, rather than Su, since Ex fits the flavour better.

This notion I certainly must disagree with because of the definition of supernatural and extraordinary. An extraordinary ability must be constantly active and must not have any activation time/action in combat. A supernatural ability is ANY ability which is NOT an extraordinary ability. A variable ability is an ability that can be either supernatural OR extraordinary, depending upon how the player/DM in question is using said ability at the time.

Couldn't one say that the epic feat to learn an epic spell can not be duplicated via Anyfeat?

One could... but why?

Perhaps base such on how intimately personal the crafting, creation, etc of each epic spell is, and thus Anyfeat is unable to duplicate it.

Intricate by mortal standards perhaps, but gods look down upon mortals like mortal men look down upon insects.

What I like a bout Fenamerc, for those unaware of the system, is the ability to craft a cool spell via the combination of normal non-epic spells.

So if you wanted a Fireball that after it went off, animated any it killed, and held fast any it did not, you would take Fireball, Animate Dead, and Hold Monster, and combine them into one spell.

I couldn't agree more my friend. Well posted.
 
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Buugipopuu

First Post
Frankly, as both a DM and a player, I am okay with this because Anyfeat is not a feat, it's a divine ability. In my brain at least, it makes perfect logical sense for divine beings to be able to make up epic spells on the spot and keep on rollin' like it ain't nothin'... they ARE gods after all.

The thing is, it makes Enlightened obsolete, and Enlightened is a Cosmic ability, and not an overpriced one at that. I have no problem with it thematically, but it has some balance implications. Either Anyfeat is too good or Enlightened is too weak, and I suspect it's the former.

This notion I certainly must disagree with because of the definition of supernatural and extraordinary. An extraordinary ability must be constantly active and must not have any activation time/action in combat. A supernatural ability is ANY ability which is NOT an extraordinary ability. A variable ability is an ability that can be either supernatural OR extraordinary, depending upon how the player/DM in question is using said ability at the time.

There are plenty of Ex abilities with no activation time, the most notable are the Umbral Blot's space-folding abilities. The Jet ability possessed by many cephalopods is Ex and has an activation action. Many creatures get Spit Acid as an Ex ability that requires a Standard action. There's also the Aranea's Web ability, the Manticore's Spikes ability and the Krenshar's Scare ability (which is rare in that it's Ex or Su). That's just the ones I could find checking the SRD's sub-Epic Animals and Magical Beasts. And there are 'natural abilities' which are neither Ex nor Su.

I looked into this before, and really, the only thing you can say is that Su abilities are somehow tied to 'magic', which generally means what being Su actually means is campaign setting-dependant. You can find examples of pretty much any ability in either description, although things which obviously break the laws of physics tend to be Su more often. My reasoning for Alter Reality being Ex is that it feels like it should be extrauniversal, and God doesn't actually do magic, he just does things, and isn't subject to the laws limiting normal creatures whereas Su abilities are aware of said limitations but tap some kind of power source to temporarily bypass them.
 

Neoiceshroom

Banned
Banned
The thing is, it makes Enlightened obsolete, and Enlightened is a Cosmic ability, and not an overpriced one at that. I have no problem with it thematically, but it has some balance implications. Either Anyfeat is too good or Enlightened is too weak, and I suspect it's the former.



There are plenty of Ex abilities with no activation time, the most notable are the Umbral Blot's space-folding abilities. The Jet ability possessed by many cephalopods is Ex and has an activation action. Many creatures get Spit Acid as an Ex ability that requires a Standard action. There's also the Aranea's Web ability, the Manticore's Spikes ability and the Krenshar's Scare ability (which is rare in that it's Ex or Su). That's just the ones I could find checking the SRD's sub-Epic Animals and Magical Beasts. And there are 'natural abilities' which are neither Ex nor Su.

I looked into this before, and really, the only thing you can say is that Su abilities are somehow tied to 'magic', which generally means what being Su actually means is campaign setting-dependant. You can find examples of pretty much any ability in either description, although things which obviously break the laws of physics tend to be Su more often. My reasoning for Alter Reality being Ex is that it feels like it should be extrauniversal, and God doesn't actually do magic, he just does things, and isn't subject to the laws limiting normal creatures whereas Su abilities are aware of said limitations but tap some kind of power source to temporarily bypass them.

Dude, who are you talking to? I'm the DM for this little spiel so please my friend don't be a rule lawyer. I hates them.
 

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