D&D 5E A tweak for the Battlemaster fighter

[Ashrym]

Yes we can. We ignore Action Surge for the same reason we ignore the Paladin's Smite. We're comparing the ordinary, base, damage.

I wouldn't ignore smite damage either. If we are only contributing base damage then spells off, no hunter's mark. It's not guaranteed to be taken by the ranger, or cast over other spells, or maintained because of concentration checks on a melee build. There's more to dispute the relevance of hunter's mark than smiting or action surge. Smiting and action surge are more reliable.

 

[dave2008]

5 superiority dice per short rest. That's only one or two dice per combat. That's not really significant.

Well that really depends. It is not uncommon for my group to get a short rest between every combat. That is why it is really helpful to account for everything in the spreadsheet.

 

[FrogReaver]

I wouldn't ignore smite damage either. If we are only contributing base damage then spells off, no hunter's mark. It's not guaranteed to be taken by the ranger, or cast over other spells, or maintained because of concentration checks on a melee build. There's more to dispute the relevance of hunter's mark than smiting or action surge. Smiting and action surge are more reliable.

I honestly fail to see the use in considering any scenario where a significant factor is left out of a class comparison. Like if we grant the Ranger Hunter's Mark and ignore action surge and superiority dice and divine smite, then what is the comparison really telling us? That ranger's using spells are better than fighters and paladins who don't use spells or combat maneuvers? I could have made that point without having to do any spreadsheet math to back it up. Everyone would have accepted it on it's face.

 

[dave2008]

Yes we can. We ignore Action Surge for the same reason we ignore the Paladin's Smite. We're comparing the ordinary, base, damage.

OK, at this point it really sounds like you are baking the numbers to prove a point rather than analyzing the data to discover an issue. A class is designed to use all of its features (at least is should be). To pick and choose which ones you want is not good analysis. If you want a fair and accurate comparison you need to account for smite damage, hunter's mark damage, maneuver dice damage, action surge damage and everything else. As it stands you are drawing conclusions from incomplete information. That does not lead to accurate results. If you are really interested in finding out if there is a problem you would find away to add everything into your analysis. I am confident you can do it! Good luck and please post the results when your complete!

 

[dave2008]

Yes we can. We ignore Action Surge for the same reason we ignore the Paladin's Smite. We're comparing the ordinary, base, damage.

Isn't action surge ordinary base damage? Is a significant class feature. It is not an optional feat.

 

[FrogReaver]

Isn't action surge ordinary base damage? Is a significant class feature. It is not an optional feat.

...Maybe he uses it to dodge in his games

 

[FrogReaver]

So how about adding per-round usage to the Battlemaster's maneuvers?

That is, at 3rd level the BM's maneuvers are as in the PHB, per Short Rest, but this changes at 5th level (maybe 6th?): in addition to the three uses per Short Rest, the Fighter gets one free use per round, two per round at 11th level, and three times per round at 17th level. You no longer gain extra superiority dice beyond the initial four. The BM gets a die or two of extra damage or can use them for other maneuvers.

Anyways, to move on from disputing the perceived problem.

This is a terribly OP proposal.

 

[Tony Vargas]

have you considered just making short rests the 5 minute catch you breath kind so that every fight they had all their uses?

That'd help the BM, some, the Monk, more, and the Warlock ...whoah.

 

[Ashrym]

That'd help the BM, some, the Monk, more, and the Warlock ...whoah.

This is true. The 5 minute rest option makes warlocks brutal. They still can't really unload a lot of spells per encounter but they can unload all their spell slots every encounter. At higher levels 3 spells per encounter in 5th level slots adds up fast.

It still doesn't increase 6-9th level spells for them and it does cause them to spam eldritch blast less unless it's a long fight, but it ends up being a lot of 5th level spells without a doubt.

 

[Esker]

This is true. The 5 minute rest option makes warlocks brutal. They still can't really unload a lot of spells per encounter but they can unload all their spell slots every encounter. At higher levels 3 spells per encounter in 5th level slots adds up fast.

It still doesn't increase 6-9th level spells for them and it does cause them to spam eldritch blast less unless it's a long fight, but it ends up being a lot of 5th level spells without a doubt.

Even at 5th level, 2 3rd level spells every encounter is a lot!