A workable fantasy economy?

In one campaign, the PCs entered a village with their typical huge haul of treasure and decided they were sorry for the poor peasants. They gave every one of the 300 inhabitants 5 gold pieces.

Later when they came back, the village was a mess. Crops were unplanted, weeds were everywhere. None of the shops had opened and no craftsmen had made anything since the adventurers had passed through. Instead, a merchant from the big city came out once a week with food and luxury items, which he sold at outrageous prices to peasants who had no sense of value. The villagers' cash was rapidly disappearing and with no crops in the ground times were going to get tough soon. Naturally they crowded around the PCs for another handout. I don't remember how the PCs resolved the issue, but it was at least an attempt at inserting real economics into D&D.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

A number of prominent fantasy computer ('video') games, that I can think of, have vendors that don't work that way. Especially when modding is a possibility. Then, even if they originally did, they don't necessarily have to any more. Not to mention games of other genres. . .

And as for D&D, well I've certainly heard of plenty of groups of gamers where these things pretty much match your characterisation of 'video games', funnily enough.

Okay, perhaps a poor choice of wording. It should have written "D&D does not have to be a video game where the vendors stand around with unlimited money to buy stuff."

There is nothing wrong if your style of play is to hand-wave all economics and just say that the local village has whatever the DMG says they can have sitting around on the shelf ready to buy, plus a ton of handy coinage to buy whatever you are selling right now. I don't have the slightest problem with that, if that's the kind of game you want to play.

Me, I prefer the kinds of games this thread supports. My players tend to do things like start businesses, maintain their own lands, fund expeditions, hire craftsmen, and otherwise have a direct impact on the economy. (In more than one game, they were working to create a trade empire.) We've all read enough history and have enough idea of how things should generally work that the typical D&D economy just breaks down our belief in the system.

A lot of it is the massive price increases in magic items. At low levels, the minor magic items are like having a warhorse and a set of good armor. At high levels, to get the value to create the magic items, you'd have to ransom an entire kingdom. It makes our heads hurt.

This thread has given me some great ideas and starting points for further refining the economy of my next campaign. Of course, 80% of the work will be entirely for my benefit because I enjoy the numbers, but I think it will help make the game that much stronger.


So, keep the ideas and the discussion flowing, folks.
 

Well, I'm not sure where to go from here. Part of me is curious how to make this stuff matter in a game, so it's not just (as some have suggested) mental masturbation. I'm not talking costs or wealth tracking, but making it influence actual adventuring.

For instance, my group was delighted recently when our DM ran an adventure based on mining. We all assumed the creepy guys with copper colored eyes were cultists trying to open the seal to the plane of madness that also happened to be where a copper mine was located, but it turns out they were just copper merchants, suffering from a disease caused by having too much copper in their bodies.

We ultimately realized that the monsters roaming around were just random monsters that snuck through a crack in the seal, and no one was trying to open the portal, but if we wanted to keep the portal sealed, we needed to close the mine. So talked to the copper merchants, and the mine owner, and a few other folks, and eventually figured out a way to get the mine owner to hand over the deed to the copper merchant, who was quite happy to see the mine close because it would drive up his margins for his existing copper stock.

Then again, this was in Eberron, which is a bit more late 1800s/early 1900s when it comes to economics. Things would have gone very differently in a traditional fantasy medieval feudal system.


I once ran a game where the PCs lived in a remote village, and they loved spending time SimCity-ifying their home. They used stone shape (and a bit of manual labor) to build sturdy walls over several month. They enchanted scarecrows to act as alarm spells for non-animal intruders. They captured the essence of a nearby portal to the elemental plane of water and created a decanter to provide endless drinking water, bathing water, and a swimming pool.

Eventually, when the demon hordes in the wilderness came to assault them, they put all of their developments to use defending their village. Hell, they killed the main villain with the pool.

But that was all local. I wonder, if they had been closer to civilization, whether they would have wanted to trade with other villages. A lot of my friends like Real Time Strategy games and stuff like Civilization, so they dig the "develop your home base" stuff.
 

Okay, perhaps a poor choice of wording. It should have written "D&D does not have to be a video game where the vendors stand around with unlimited money to buy stuff."
Absolutely, and no, it wasn't a poor choice of words, so much as me being pedantic or something. Thanks for being so reasonable about it all. :)
 

Well, I'm not sure where to go from here. Part of me is curious how to make this stuff matter in a game, so it's not just (as some have suggested) mental masturbation. I'm not talking costs or wealth tracking, but making it influence actual adventuring.

For instance, my group was delighted recently when our DM ran an adventure based on mining. ...

I think you've answered your own question, in a way. If you create a more reasonable economy, then the economy itself will suggest adventures and plots. For instance:

If land really is the source of wealth, then the control of deeds and/or titles will become very important. This can lead to adventures like recovering a deed, investigating who is working to keep a deed/title from transferring smoothly, or completing some task on behalf of a particular claimant so that they can one-up the competition and get the prize.

That cargo which has to get somewhere might not be a wagon full of gold coins. It might be the seed needed to sow the fields, it might be tools needed to work the land, it could be the grain, cheese, and meat being paid in taxes so that someone doesn't lose their holdings. When its lives and futures on the line instead of just an economic setback for the merchant, it makes the adventure more intense. There's guarding the goods or recovering them after theft. There's also thwarting or investigating someone who is trying to swap the good for inferior ones and so ruin the landowner.

Dealing with treasure also changes. In the default D&D WalMart economy, you can buy and sell whatever you want whenever you want wherever you want. If you go with something more historical, you have a totally different treasure distribution. Instead of just selling things, you're trading it for things, giving it as gifts for good will or future favors, and (quite probably) paying bunches in taxes. Frankly, I've had players have as much fun or more doling out the treasure and deciding who gets what and what gets hoarded as they did killing the monsters to get it in the first place.

You also add a whole level of favor exchange. The lord whose villages are being raided by an ogre and needs the PCs to deal with it might not have that handy bag of gold laying around. The PCs might be trading favors, might be granted land or a pass from taxes, or might be doing it because in the scheme of things they are obligated to based on their station or the order they belong to.

I also think that having a more robust economy also makes the treasure more interesting. I've never liked just having piles of coins except where the coins made sense to the situation. My players are used to getting things like furs, gems, artworks, tapestries and carpets, bags of grain, tools, weapons, wagons and tack, animals, utensils, and whatever else I can think of. It's not as simple as just handing out 500 gold, but for some of us it is more fun.


The trick that I've found ultimately is making the economy robust enough to be interesting but not so complex as to bog down the players with required reading. If you can't summarize their expected interactions with the market in a couple of pages or less, they're probably not going to remember it. (But that pretty much describes players and about anything in the campaign world.)
 

My players' last victory earned them a small ballista-armed sailing vessel and a Letter of Marque authorizing them to attack any enemies of the crown. Their current adventure may result in their being given a small fiefdom and a timber concession. These are things a GM can do without monkeying with the expected level-based item/treasure rate.
 

I do like the idea of giving the characters rewards that aren't just coinage. Makes it feel more real, less like keeping score in a video game. And yeah, it can lead to more adventures too so good all round. (some great suggestions there On Puget Sound and SiderisAnon.)

Taking away the raw liquidity of cash does have an effect on the characters ability to buy 'level appropriate' toys but, eh, whatever. I don't run those sorts of games anyway. My players are damn lucky to have a +1 weapon each by 4th level. I have been described as a stingy GM... :D
 

Pets & Sidekicks

Remove ads

Top