Abaddon, NM

[The_Universe]

as long as it's a distinct part of the universe that does not actually involve any of the characters from the show(s), AND (and this is the kicker) it uses the D20 modern ruleset. Hell, the "shadowslayer" in the D20 modern core book is such a blatant buffy ripoff, it makes Joss Whedon cry every time a nerd reads it.

 

[Archon]

"Oh, scary vampires, they die from splinters."

sounds good to me. what about everyone else? "Buffy"?
if playing the buffyverse sounds unapealing to anyone else let me know.
mik

 

[AIM-54]

as long as it's a distinct part of the universe that does not actually involve any of the characters from the show(s), AND (and this is the kicker) it uses the D20 modern ruleset. Hell, the "shadowslayer" in the D20 modern core book is such a blatant buffy ripoff, it makes Joss Whedon cry every time a nerd reads it.

Why do you get to be the final arbiter of what we play? Why shouldn't we, as a group, be allowed to try out new and interesting systems, other than to appease your whiny d20 need. Maybe some people might enjoy trying something new. I'm not familiar with the BTVS RPG, but I'd be more than happy to try it out if Mik were to run something there. As a more free-ranging gamer, I really, really hate being constricted to d20. Really hate it. It's a fine system, but it is not the be-all, end all of systems. And just because you are too arrogant or stubborn or afraid or lazy or whatever the hell your problem is, does not mean we, as a group, should be confined to your wishes. But maybe my experience with gaming groups is different than yours, where you just see us as your personal playthings that you need in order to play your silly games.

 

[Archon]

tribute

i'd love to run a game using a different ruleset. without sounding snooty, i know more rulesets then probably all of the groups played. but hey, this game is a break for kennon. he's been putting the extra hours into KoA so all the rest of us essentially have to do is show up and play.
this is a small break for him so he can play a hero for a second instead of all the nice cudley villains we're used to him playing.
yeah, i'm not a big fan of d20 modern. but i'm versatile and willing to comprimise. plus, a game should never be about the system. a good DM can run a good game no-matter the ruleset. and i intend to run a good game. i know it'll only be a one-nighter but i will put the hard work into it that kennon has put in for us.
and after KoA is concluded and and there is time for a new game to arise i will offer to run an extended game. and, comprimise willing, i will run it using one of my many favorite non-d20 rulesets.
so don't think of this as a major game we'll all have to put a lot of time, effort and energy into. it's a one night stand. it's a little vacation for a DM thats been working hard. and gosh, back home my players understand this. after i've been running for awhile HINMAN! would jump in and run something of my choosing and i'd do the same for him.
i understand where you're both comming from. yes we should play a different system. but yes i think kennon deserves to choose the one night game.
peace.
mik ak "the 'shadow' slayer"

 

[AIM-54]

Mik,
My issue is less how this particular one shot is going to go than an overall attitude, at which the latest incarnation has merely set me off. I for one would be happy to see you run something new once KoA is done. I have myself offered my services in a variety of non-d20 systems/worlds only to be forced to compromise because certain people are whiny and I'm relatively good natured. I agree that gaming should not be about systems. If it were, I would probably have dropped out of our particular group two months ago, at which point my interest in d20 gaming was satiated. But because I enjoy the company, I continue to play. However, I feel that the group (if we are truly a gaming group. My particular background has been fortunate, in both S'toon and Boston in that my friends have always been open to trying new things whenever people have brought them in) may feel undue pressure from a certain person who, because he is the current DM and apparently has already planned to GM whatever we're doing next, despite the presence of at least two other experienced and willing personages and a fairly regular comments about a lack of playing time. I understand how some of this may be a reflection of past gaming experiences and a certain assumed leadership role, but I feel if we are in fact a gaming group and not just slaves to "THE DM's" will, we should have the opportunity to explore new and different things. I imagine I'm in the minority, but I am making my...feelings? perspective? irritation? known in the name of communication, although I doubt any of this comes as any surprise to anyone. Maybe when this campaign is over, I simply need to move on to new pastures and a group that's a better fit for my own gaming style and preferences. This is not to reflect poorly on anyone, but rather a reflection of my own, clearly very different desires for my gaming experiences.

 

[The_Universe]

Sorry I haven't been here to comment, and thus defuse this particular Sh_t storm.

I just want to play D20 once. I haven't. Ever. I am by no means the final arbiter of what we play. I was just putting what I wanted to play out there. As I noted above, if everyone wants to play horror, that's fine--I just won't be particularly into it.

I really DON'T like learning new rulesets. I'm not a gamist--I am a storyteller. Sorry guys. Play what you want.

 

[The_Universe]

Why do you get to be the final arbiter of what we play? Why shouldn't we, as a group, be allowed to try out new and interesting systems, other than to appease your whiny d20 need. Maybe some people might enjoy trying something new. I'm not familiar with the BTVS RPG, but I'd be more than happy to try it out if Mik were to run something there. As a more free-ranging gamer, I really, really hate being constricted to d20. Really hate it. It's a fine system, but it is not the be-all, end all of systems. And just because you are too arrogant or stubborn or afraid or lazy or whatever the hell your problem is, does not mean we, as a group, should be confined to your wishes. But maybe my experience with gaming groups is different than yours, where you just see us as your personal playthings that you need in order to play your silly games.

Not fair, and not cool. I have made my feelings known in detail to you, before, and you are well aware that the above is not the case. I genuinely *like* d20, and I am truly sorry you do not, and I am also sorry that the fact that I do apparently angers you so.

*sighs* probably talk to you all when I get back from the wedding.

 

[The_Universe]

In addition, I am planning on running something after KoA, but not immediately after. It takes time to craft a game, and so I imagine there will be room for an entire campaign in between this and the next thing. I, too, would love to see Jeremiah or Mik run something in the interim, and would love to see into one of what I am sure are your beautifully crafted game worlds.

However, when we do so, I'd rather concentrate on experiencing the story, and the world, rather than learning a new way to initiate a grapple, make an attack, etc.

It very well may be that I am in the minority--if so, I will happily play in an alternate system. However, in my experience, you lose a lot trying to learn a new world and a new system all at once. As I have noted (in different words) above, if a true "gamer" is someone who has gamed in hundreds of systems, than I am not one. I have real experience in 5, and extensive experience in only 3.

Nonetheless, if everyone is tiring of D20, feel free to move on. I was just voicing MY wishes, and if I can't do that and be the DM, than I am not sure how else to let my particular feelings be known. I will play, and I will be good natured, but I wanted a chance to play a game that 1) everyone already knows the rules for, and 2) I have a relatively high dollar investment in.

I'm rambling, and argumentative, mostly because my feelings (oft-hidden though they may be) were and are hurt.

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

I truly do not care. I have only actually *experienced* d20-- I have, two times, played d6 SW... and, as such, I tend to prefer the system that I know. However, I am not opposed to learning a new system... it's just easier to enjoy playing in a system that I, as a relatively unseasoned role player (compared to you guys), know already.

But, I certainly wouldn't mind learning something new.

I don't think that anyone has been overly demanding or whiney... we are all just expressing our opinions of what we want to do-- so, everyone just cool your jets.

Ciao!
--Liz

 

[AIM-54]

I genuinely *like* d20, and I am truly sorry you do not, and I am also sorry that the fact that I do apparently angers you so.

My frustration has nothing to do with how much you like d20. It has everything to do with your intransigence over the possibility of playing/learning a new system. This has been a regular aspect of my gaming experience and I enjoy nothing more than introducing friends to something I happen to enjoy immensely. It has become more and more clear, however, that this particular facet of my particular perspective, particularly when combined with my preference for non-heroic, gritty survival style gaming (something the d20 system is ultimately poorly suited to portraying, but that's not what it's designed for) creates a situation in which I will never be particularly in tune with the rest of this group. That's fine, people seek different things in their gaming experience. I am just put off by the unwillingness to try.

However, when we do so, I'd rather concentrate on experiencing the story, and the world, rather than learning a new way to initiate a grapple, make an attack, etc.

This strikes me as particularly ironic, as whenever someone throws some new combat aspect in, someone has to look up the rules just about every time. Learning a new system is generally no less disruptive. Of course it may take a session or two before people feel more comfortable with what's going on, but there's no reason it has to detract from the other elements you consider vital to a good game. Indeed, I would argue that the system can have an intimate relation to the gaming experience. Such systems can be vital to helping create the atmosphere of a world (a more lethal system tends to breed caution etc). It will, at least, provide something new, and possibly refreshing, from the same old, ordinary good vs evil cliches of a typical D&D game. But I suspect I am the only one in this particular group with those types of inclinations.

Finally, it's somewhat ridiculous to base this kind of decision-making on experience in role-playing. I probably played three or four different systems in my first year of gaming, with varying degrees of success, for sure, but usually there was someone with more experience leading the way. Of course, there were cases where we were all neophytes trying to learn a new game and though we certainly did not get everything right the first few tries, it has led to some of my most enjoyable gaming moments. But I would never have had the opportunity if I had adamantly stuck to what I knew.

Clearly there are very different philosophies clashing here and clearly, if I'm going to continue gaming with this group I'm going to have to suck it up and deal with it. If my frustration continues, it may simply be better for everyone if I drop out and pursue my gaming interests elsewhere.