D&D 5E Ability Score Increases (I've changed my mind.)

[Yaarel]

I like you thinking and have considered something similar as well. If I was designing things from scratch, I would probably go with four or five stats. This however is one of those things that will never be changed in official D&D.

Since D&D 3e systematized the mechanics of 1e and 2e, the abilities have become the fundamental mechanics that all other mechanics depend on. The abilities do the heavy lifting of game play.

There is a "deep" need, for these abilities to function well − elegantly and saliently − in order for the D&D game to function well.

Reducing the abilities to four is, so far, the only way that I have come across, to make each of the abilities both disambiguously meaningful and roughly equally balanced with each other. For example, where Intelligence includes Perception, the Intelligence becomes a powerful and appealing choice for many Fighter builds.

I feel, the ongoing need for a better ability system, and now the discomfort of being too heavyhanded about the abilities with regard to races, might be enough to bring about a real reform of the abilities. Albeit, it might happen in a surprising way.

In any case, these four abilities are recognizable to the D&D tradition, and reflect how most players tended to think about them anyway. Especially with the caveats in mind, each ability works exactly like a D&D player would expect them to work.

• Strength (including size and toughness)
• Dexterity (including athletic dodge)
• Intelligence (including knowing things from observation)
• Charisma (including a willful personality)

 

[le Redoutable]

ok. So I quit and let you work AD&D 3rd Ed ?

 

[TwoSix]

In any case, these four abilities are recognizable to the D&D tradition, and reflect how most players tended to think about them anyway. Especially with the caveats in mind, each ability works exactly like a D&D player would expect them to work.

• Strength (including size and toughness)
• Dexterity (including athletic dodge)
• Intelligence (including knowing things from observation)
• Charisma (including a willful personality)

I both agree with your logic but have to acknowledge that the 6 stats are too intrinsically definitional of D&D to change. It would be like publishing Monopoly with a hexagonal board.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I both agree with your logic but have to acknowledge that the 6 stats are too intrinsically definitional of D&D to change. It would be like publishing Monopoly with a hexagonal board.

Settlers of Catan Monopoly?

 

[Yaarel]

I both agree with your logic but have to acknowledge that the 6 stats are too intrinsically definitional of D&D to change. It would be like publishing Monopoly with a hexagonal board.

But if the six arent working, then theyre just not working.

Note that even Gygax tried to expand the six to seven, adding Comeliness. In hindsight, Comeliness was just not working well, and fell out again.

But for the same reason, Constitution and Wisdom are just not working well. The game becomes a better game, when we let these fall out too.

Of course, in the four, Constitution and Wisdom dont really fall out, they just reorganize. Constitution merges into Strength, while Dexterity picks up all the agile aspects of Strength. Meanwhile, Wisdom sends Perception and intuition into Intelligence, and Will and empathy into Charisma. And this reorganization of Wisdom makes much more sense anyway.

The only real difference between the six and the four, is the four work better and are easier for players (new and experienced) to intuitively understand and know when to use.

Also, the four have a palpable feel of there no longer being any "dump stats". I am ok with this.

 

[TwoSix]

But if the six arent working, then theyre just not working.

Again, I have no issue with the idea (Shadow of the Demon Lord, by one of 5e's designers, uses these exact stats and it works great). But just because something is a rational improvement of the game has very little correlation with whether the change is accepted by the broader market.

 

[Yaarel]

Again, I have no issue with the idea (Shadow of the Demon Lord, by one of 5e's designers, uses these exact stats and it works great). But just because something is a rational improvement of the game has very little correlation with whether the change is accepted by the broader market.

Maybe the names can redefine saves.

Ability: Save
• Strength: Constitution save
• Dexterity: Reflex save
• Intelligence: Perception save
• Charisma: Wisdom save

So all six are still present, while the four work well.



Personally, I love the mechanics of Shadow of the Demon Lord, and would happily use this system. The thing is, I like the lighter and more heroic tone of D&D, and the edgy evil of Shadow is a bit much for me to use for all of the my setting needs.

 

[Aldarc]

I both agree with your logic but have to acknowledge that the 6 stats are too intrinsically definitional of D&D to change. It would be like publishing Monopoly with a hexagonal board.

Plus, there are other games and heartbreakers that do this already: e.g., Ryuutama, Shadow of the Demon Lord, etc.

I would definitely consider dwindling the stats down to these four for other games: e.g., Index Card RPG, etc.

But for D&D? A snowball's chance in the Seven Hells that the six attributes will ever change.

 

[Yaarel]

Maybe the names can redefine saves.

Ability: Save
• Strength: Constitution save
• Dexterity: Reflex save
• Intelligence: Perception save
• Charisma: Wisdom save

So all six are still present, while the four work well.

Here, each of these four saves has both a rolled (active) save and an unrolled (passive) save.

The passive Perception save is identical to Passive Perception, so that a character might notice something while passing by.

Similarly, a passive Constitution save would refer to being able to withstand harsh conditions, without exertion.

A passive Reflex save is for tumultuous environments, like being on a ship in a storm, walking across an icy glacier in wind.

A passive Wisdom save is for things like remaining courageous in spooky environments, withstanding social pressure, and so on.

The passive saves are always-on.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I'm oddly surrounded by combat sports. I've dated a pro wrestler, a competitive Taekwondo fighter, a semi-pro boxer, and a competitive mixed-martial artist. My father had golden gloves, and my uncle (his brother) teaches Krav Maga to private bodyguards.

I did ballet.

You chose the brutal route, huh?