D&D 5E Ability Score Increases (I've changed my mind.)

[Chaosmancer]

And that would be great, if there was any mechanical weight to any of that.

How much mechanical weight can you give to it before the game starts buckling and becomes harder to play? I mean, do we need Ennui rolls to see if your elf character cares enough to engage in a conversation?

Some things are just hard to make into raw mechanics, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

[Scribe]

fwiw, I think Basic dnd is perfect for classic fantasy as it is both simple and leans into archetype. One of the things that is confusing to me is that, if you want a game that emphasizes archetype, I can't imagine 5e as currently written working for you.

I agree. I find that article you had linked in the locked thread really hit on some themes and notes that resonate and that 5e can work for, but is clearly moving away from.

The fact there is so little that I still want out of 5e is what makes it easy to skip on a release that doesnt offer that low bar I am asking it to.

That I was reading that article while waiting to run a dungeon in the TBC version of World of Warcraft may also indicate where my mind goes. I'm not looking for a 'lets resolve our differences diplomatically' solution all the time. Sometimes, I'm just getting ready to kick in the door and go put some undead back in the ground and kill a lich and take his loot.

 

[Chaosmancer]

No one likes elves, everyone knows they're dicks!

Well I know you love halflings, what if I want my halfling to be the most intelligent member of the party, am I not allowed?

 

[Chaosmancer]

Please show me a non-elf race where different narratives necessitate floating ASIs.

Goblins.

Sometimes goblins are presented as incredibly strong beings, even though they are smaller than humans.
Sometimes goblins are tireless.
Sometimes goblins are cunning and clever tricksters.
Sometimes they are sneaky and stealthy.
Sometimes they are keen of ear.
Sometimes they are incredibly charming.

I could probably find a goblin myth tying them to any ASI I wanted. And if you take the "goblinoid" races from older editions, I can probably find a lot of different ASIs they have had over the years.

 

[Malmuria]

I agree. I find that article you had linked in the locked thread really hit on some themes and notes that resonate and that 5e can work for, but is clearly moving away from.

The fact there is so little that I still want out of 5e is what makes it easy to skip on a release that doesnt offer that low bar I am asking it to.

That I was reading that article while waiting to run a dungeon in the TBC version of World of Warcraft may also indicate where my mind goes. I'm not looking for a 'lets resolve our differences diplomatically' solution all the time. Sometimes, I'm just getting ready to kick in the door and go put some undead back in the ground and kill a lich and take his loot.

no no, you use diplomacy to convince the local lizardfolk raiders that the lich is their enemy, have them go in and attack the lich first, mop up whatever's left, and then go claim both rewards from the local noble.

 

[mrpopstar]

No one likes elves, everyone knows they're dicks!

IT IS KNOWN!

 

[Maxperson]

Probably 3/3.5 for me. My favorite Tiefling PC of all time.

Same. 5e's slavish devotion to simplifying races has resulted in very poor racial creations like the Loxodon. 3e did it much better.

 

[Maxperson]

So then answer the question: what makes a Dex +2 halfling feel differently than a Dex +2 elf? If you point out all of their traits and culture, then why does that Dex +2 even matter in the first place?

That's the same kind of question as "have you stopped beating your wife?" I already answered this multiple times in other posts.

 

[Umbran]

Just because you have a hard time grokking the idea... o

Nor do we need to remove or not remove systems because you have a hard time ...

...everything I've read of yours on this topic indicates that you really can't tolerate ...

And you clearly didn't care ...

So you're saying you are incapable ...

Mod Note:

Everyone of these is making this discussion personal. Every. Single. One.

I don't know what your goal is, but what you are doing here is not constructive.

You are done in this thread.

 

[LadyElect]

Even though I am fully in favor of floating ASIs, I do wish it were possible to make half-orcs stronger than the other races, and halflings more nimble, and elves all have higher charisma (which, really, makes more sense to me than dexterity) without it affecting optimization. I mean, I agree it "makes sense" for half-orcs to have a higher strength score. It does. It's just that with D&D mechanics the price we pay for that is half-orcs (or any race that gets +2 Str) make the best fighters. Which is not ok with me.

The argument is sometimes made that the other races "make up for it in other ways" but, really, they don't. Sure, the elf can't be put to sleep and the halfling is lucky, but neither of those really compares to a straight +1/+1 to all combat rolls.

Though I tend to favor rules lite and floating ASIs in my own brew, I would also love to play a campaign with hyper-defined racial identities in lieu of the relatively minor differences that exist. So it makes a lot of sense to me that those who favor racial ASIs might also favor increases or decreases to certain ability caps by race to deepen those distinctions.

And this is perhaps a lot harder to make work for your players’ enjoyment, but I find the boons and banes structure of racial features worth revisiting to potentially decrease the “oops all humans” criticisms. Negative impact features like sunlight sensitivity are few and far between since they’re less palatable on the surface, but they offer a sort of limitation that, if more widespread, might naturally lead PCs away from homogeny in an effort to not succumb to one specific negative encounter as a group. It could also potentially help to counterbalance the lack of distinction when maxing ability scores since it’s relatively trivial to push to that if you so choose.