D&D 5E Ability Score Increases (I've changed my mind.)

[Lyxen]

He's already called me dense. I don't expect personal attacks are a thing he avoids.

No, please learn to read. I have asked you not to make yourself denser than necessary, because the problem is that you argue very strongly, but provide zero evidence of your claims and refuse to look at evidence when presented. At leas Bill makes real efforts to understand and we are progressing.

 

[Scott Christian]

And I've said several times now, it's really about what the other options are.

I don't have any particular desire to roleplay one race over another; rather I build my characters for their collection of abilities, and then I figure out their personality. If the mechanics leads me to end up with a halfling or a goliath or a tortle, then I'll start to think about how their personality and decision making are influenced by their race and background.

Interesting. This is exactly how I have built my optimized or min/maxed characters.

When I choose the against type characters, I often think of the personality and background first. Then that leads to the against type. It's never a forethought like it is for my optimized character.

I wonder if others think the same way?

 

[Scott Christian]

This also completely ignores the Variant and Custom (and rolling stats!) all of which are potentially way stronger than Array + Fixed ASI.

And for me it leaves out the biggest variable of them all - the DM's play structure. I mean, a paladin is incredibly strong if you only have one combat per long rest. A rogue is godlike if there are more than three encounters before a long rest. The swing between these two playstyles is larger than anything a +1 can give.

 

[Lyxen]

People in my experience pick skills, feats, etc. that fit with their theme. So yes, that's optimizing.

And I'm the one who is wrong for equating powergaming and optimising ?

This is EXACTLY why I use the word powergaming for the way you play, because it's not about the story and the theme, it's only about technical power, and this is why you want/need the +1 that Tasha provides. Again, nothing wrong with that if that's the way your table wants to play, but please understand that it's not the only way to play, and the devs tell you that themselves. But, once more, you refuse to look at evidence.

 

[Maxperson]

No, please learn to read. I have asked you not to make yourself denser than necessary, because the problem is that you argue very strongly, but provide zero evidence of your claims and refuse to look at evidence when presented. At leas Bill makes real efforts to understand and we are progressing.

And now I can't read. So let me help you here. "Denser" means more dense. Can't be denser without first being dense. Asking me not to make myself denser is saying that I am already dense.

Much like you accusing me of being dense and then saying the exact same thing I had just said(which prompted you to call me dense), making you appear dense, you have now accused me of not being able to read by yourself misunderstanding the word "denser." These insults of yours are not helping you.

 

[Lyxen]

And so if I can find somebody who has created a race/class combination using Tasha's rules that is considered not great in that guide, where all they've done is use the floating ASI to give themselves a +3 in their primary attribute, you'll acknowledge that your characterization of optimizers/powergamers is wrong, and concede the debate?

That would be a starter, yes, but remember, that has to be a character that has actually seen play.

After that, we can start discussing statistics, but I'm afraid it's going to be hard to get data.

 

[Maxperson]

And I'm the one who is wrong for equating powergaming and optimising ?

Yes. Your definition makes literally everyone a powergamer as I am pointing out. Since that's clearly wrong, YOU are clearly wrong. Optimization does not equate to powergaming.

This is EXACTLY why I use the word powergaming for the way you play,

I play for story and theme.

 

[Scott Christian]

Oh oh oh, now I think I understand what you are saying. Looking through that link, there are some new "best" races for warlock, such as Kobold and Warforged, if you are using floating ASIs.

So the question is, do all the optimizers switch from Tiefling warlock to Kobold warlock, or do they not care about race and pick other things like halflings?

You, obviously, think it will be the former (they'll all play kobolds and warforged) because of what you think the optimizer mindset is.

I, obviously, think some people will do that, but that we will see much greater diversity, because of what my own mindset is.

In my experience, optimizers will just make sure they have an optimized attribute bonus. Almost all powergamers (I can't stand that word by the way) will begin their new builds using the warforged or kobold. The rest won't care until we see the warforged warlock dominating the spotlight in 90% of the combat situations.

Edit: After reading Max's post, I think the part about matching the theme is spot on. Such as, my character was a frontiersman, therefore he would need the nature skill. So I take a background that has that if the class doesn't.

 

[Wolfram stout]

Oh oh oh, now I think I understand what you are saying. Looking through that link, there are some new "best" races for warlock, such as Kobold and Warforged, if you are using floating ASIs.

So the question is, do all the optimizers switch from Tiefling warlock to Kobold warlock, or do they not care about race and pick other things like halflings?

You, obviously, think it will be the former (they'll all play kobolds and warforged) because of what you think the optimizer mindset is.

I, obviously, think some people will do that, but that we will see much greater diversity, because of what my own mindset is.

I haven't started any new campaigns since Tasha's, so I unfortunately don't have the evidence you are looking for. I'm a little startled that would accept as evidence somebody posting in a forum to say, "Yeah I'm an optimizer and made a halfling warlock", but maybe that will happen and I'll guess we'll see what your reaction is.

Until we see new D&DBeyond data we won't know for sure.

Agreed. I have not had a chance to play my Halfling (lightfoot) Folk Hero Warlock yet. He rescued a fox from a silverthorn bush. The fox turned out to be a Fey Lord that had gotten himself trapped. As thanks he offered my character a pact.

But as I used floating ASI and have a+2 to Chr, I guess I am a powergamer.

 

[Lyxen]

And now I can't read.

Obviously, yes, you can't read anything that is provided as evidence.

So let me help you here. "Denser" means more dense. Can't be denser without first being dense. Asking me not to make myself denser is saying that I am already dense.

No, I'm saying that you are making yourself more dense than necessary as you refuse to read any evidence provided to you. But honestly, at this stage, I think I will just ignore you. At some point in time, I had a glimmer of hope to be able to have an interesting discussion with you but that ship has sailed.

Have nice games and a great day.