Abrupt Jaunt change;

[lordxaviar]

The problem we always had with Abrupt Jaunt is not the "get out of grapple free", but the "avoid any attack for free" aspects of it being an immediate action. We house ruled Abrupt Jaunt to be a swift action rather than an immediate action, and as a swift action it works just fine. It's still a great ability, but is no longer flat-out broken.

ok but it has a DC save... equal to 10+1/2 your level+int mod. you cant activate this ability in response to an attack that you aren't aware of.

does this not allow the grappler to maintain their grapple?

) "Oh, I'm threatened by a large monster. Let me take a free 10' step, then a free 5' to get into a position where I'm not threatened."

dont have a problem with that - limited times per day

b) "Oh, I'm grappled. Let me take a free 10' step out of the grapple so I can break the grapple, and then a free 5' step, and still cast a spell this round without needing a concentration check."

if he doenst save against me, so dont have a prob here

c) "Oh, I'm stuck at the bottom of a 10' high obstacle. Not a problem.

I wouldnt allow it to work without line of sight, the wiz would have to teleport to an unseen spot mmmm

d) "I need to get away from my foe this round, but if I double move I'm still in charge distance. Let me add an additional 10' to my move, so that I'm outside of charge range."

dont have a problem with this either again limited times per day

e) "I want to cast a spell this round, but if I take a move action, I'll draw an AoO, and if I just 5' step I'll take a full attack next round. Let me take a 10' step, then a move action, then cast a spell, and now my foe not only doesn't stick to me, but has to charge just to attack me next round.

Save comes into play and still limited times per day

I just found this and seeing how it all applies

Using an immediate action on your turn counts as your swift action for that turn

SWIFT ACTION
A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but it represents a larger expenditure of effort than a free action.
You can take a swift action any time during your turn, but you can perform only one swift action per turn.

i see this as an immediate action is a swift action in terms of time. I think i would allow it but stop any otner action until the rest of the combat actions have taken place, then the rest of the wizards actions.

still dont see it being a problem, saves his ass on occasion.. he gave up his familiar, and it does have limits.

 

[xigbar]

Of the fixes mentioned in the link I made upthread, one I'm really curious about is simply to attach a drawback: making an Abrupt Jaunt leaves the caster dazed until the end of his next turn.

Has anyone ever used that variant? I'm curious to hear how it would work in play.

It would be exactly what someone would imagine it to be. It's still a get out of ass-whoopin free card, but no freebie returning fire. However, at low levels, when a wizard doesn't have many spells to use to being with, getting out of the way of a big sword is what would allow them to survive to being the monster they are at higher levels.

 

[Ranger19k]

In the long run, maybe.

In the short run you are still dealing with an ability that is equivalent to: ...lists lots of really good stuff...

It's reduced from being utterly broken to... still a no brainer option that will get used again and again and again.

Celebrim - Completely agree. It's still awesome even as a swift action, but we found it to be less game breaking that way.

ok but it has a DC save... equal to 10+1/2 your level+int mod. you cant activate this ability in response to an attack that you aren't aware of.

does this not allow the grappler to maintain their grapple?
.......

Save comes into play and still limited times per day
........

still dont see it being a problem, saves his ass on occasion.. he gave up his familiar, and it does have limits.

Xaviar, I'm not sure where you are going with the DC save thing. The Immediate Magic description says the "save DC (if any")...." suggesting that some give saves and some do not. The ones that require a save are the ones that list a save in their description (see enchantment and necromancy). Abrupt jaunt doesn't list a save, so it doesn't have any. Besides, it doesn't effect anyone else, just yourself, so why would there ever be a save? Are you saving against your own ability?

So no, I disagree, there is no save involved with Abrupt Jaunt.

I believe you are underestimating the utility of that ability being used as an immediate action as written. If you don't see it as being problematic, then by all means go ahead and adopt it as is into your campaign. We found it too broken as an immediate action but more reasonable as a swift action and decided to run with that.

I know that others limit it as a move action or a "turn-for-turn" exchange requiring that you are dazed for a round after use. They all work, it just depends how much you want to gimp the thing. We gimped it a bit and were fine with it. If one wants to nerf a bit more, then go with those other two options. And if you are fine with your conjurer being hi-nigh invincible, then leave it as it is.

 

[kitcik]

It's still awesome even as a swift action, we found it to be much less game breaking that way.

It's less abrupt that way, though. Maybe change the name to Swift Jaunt?

 

[lordxaviar]

Celebrim - Completely agree. It's still awesome even as a swift action, we found it to be much less game breaking that way.


Xaviar, I'm not sure where you are going with the DC save thing. The Immediate Magic description says the "save DC (if any")...." suggesting that some give saves and some do not. The ones that require a save are the ones that list a save in their description (see enchantment and necromancy). Abrupt jaunt doesn't list a save, so it doesn't have any. Besides, it doesn't effect anyone else, just yourself, so why would there ever be a save? Are you saving against your own ability?

So no, I disagree, there is no save involved with Abrupt Jaunt.


ok sorry here,...didnt read the (if any) was looking at a bad pdf copy of book

so yes you are correct.. I like this especially for npc's and it helps the conjurer being specilized (or limited) plus loosing the familiar... not sure of other campaigns and will see if it ever comes up in mine other than NPC's which makes it a harder npc to hit.. its all win win for me..
again i defend with the limited times per day... Unless you have stats that are way over the top

there is a good thread starter... take your players.. and use the stat buy chart in the dmg... what does your buy in point come out too. (dont count age or level increases).
to quote again I use LG rules on this... 28 for hard but allow them to roll first to see if they can be higher if rolls are lower...they can add to bring them to 28.

the times per day are 1,2,3,4, and then stats get kinda high.. if they have this more than that per day..perhaps its the stats that are the problem and not the ability.

 

[Ranger19k]

I like this especially for npc's and it helps the conjurer being specilized (or limited) plus loosing the familiar... not sure of other campaigns and will see if it ever comes up in mine other than NPC's which makes it a harder npc to hit.. its all win win for me..

This would be evil. I've actually only seen it used as a PC ability but I like where you're going with it. Give the BBEG abrupt jaunt and have him pop around the room every time the PCs try to get a swing at him. Ha! Knowing my group, I'm pretty sure that I'd wind up using my dodge skills to avoid flying PH's aimed in my head if I pulled out that trick though....

 

[aboyd]

I've used Abrupt Jaunt in 3 ways. Note that when it comes to negating attacks, it's about as useful as a Mirror Image spell. So I'm not particularly bothered by its ability to make the enemy waste a few attacks. Other low-level spells will do that too, and better.

What bothered me about it was different -- I ran a campaign where every PC, from the cleric to the fighter, took a level of wizard just to load up on the free teleportation. So I made a one-level dip less desirable, like this:

1. You can use this ability as many times per day as your wizard level or intelligence bonus, whichever is lower.

Next problem I had was that they were using it to get beyond doors or walls that were clearly intended to block low-level characters. You know, the door with the DC 35 Open Locks check, and they were just teleporting to the other side and unlocking it. So I implemented the "Magic Item Compendium rule," like this:

2. Must follow the limitations that all the teleport items in the MIC had: that is, "The new space must be unoccupied and within line of sight and line of effect."

The third and final way I've used it is for my own PC, as his AC. He is a wizard with no Dexterity bonus, and only Amulet of Protection +2 for AC. So he has a total AC of 12. In order to keep him alive, whenever the enemy gets near, he uses it to force a few misses. Yes, this is exactly the thing that others here are complaining about. However, my wizard rolled poorly for stats -- about a 24 point buy -- and this allows him to be viable in a game where everyone else rolled 40+ point buy stats.

Nobody has complained yet. Not even the DM. I guess this third use looks like this:

3. Use 100% as written, fully unimpeded, fully unrestricted. However, in play it's only used as AC.

 

[Empirate]

I've been DMing for a Focused Conjurer with Abrupt Jaunt quite a while now, and I'm not getting how this is supposed to be broken. Sure, he gets to evade stuff now and then, and that gives the player a cozy feeling inside, like nothing can touch him.
But that's not true. It's only 1/round, so dedicated enemies will be able to take him down just fine, if he relies on AJ alone to protect him. Also, he's giving up his swift action for the next round, which casters, as a rule, don't like to do unless it's for significant gain. Opponents with good reach can still lock him down, as well.

For that? He's giving up his familiar. Do you know how incredibly useful a familiar can be? It improves your action economy, it can share your buffs and wade into melee (also there's nice familiar-only buffs out there), it opens the road to Improved Familiar (and there's some awesome ones out there - Beguiler familiar for continuous True Seeing at level 7, anyone?), it can scout, it can communicate with you and with other animals, it can fetch stuff or act as a messenger, it can use alchemical or magic items, it gets feats that can benefit you massively (Devotion feats maybe, or Draconic Auras?), etc. etc.

Personally, I'd only take AJ in a gish build, or when I don't feel a familiar fits the character concept.

 

[Greenfield]

Question: Since I don't have my PHB2 with me, I'll ask whetehr a character can take the ACF of Sudden Jaunt, and then spend a feat to obtain a familiar (i.e. the Obtain Familiar feat)? Or is the character forever barred from that option?

 

[Empirate]

There is nothing in the relevant rules text to forbid taking Obtain Familiar - which is a good feat, but that goes for everybody without a familiar.

Question back: isn't Obtain Familiar OP for Bards, Warlocks, or Beguilers (not the useful little critters - the class!)?