Absorb Spell or Yay! More Spellthief questions...

[Thanee]

Failure indicates that the spell has its normal effect.

Is the normal effect that of the spell when you have succeeded on your save, or does this mean, that when you use Absorb Spell and fail, you suffer the effect as if you had not succeeded on your save (a prerequisite to use Absorb Spell is to succeed on the save first).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Sound of Azure]

I see it as if the Spellthief is battling for control of the spell, so if he fails the check by 5 or more, he is fully affected by the spell (such is the risk of messing with spell energy). If he fails by less than 5, the spell would dissipate harmlessly.

Anyway, that's how I'd play it, a bit of both.

Edit: of course, that doesn't really answer the question.. . Normal, to me suggests full effect of the spell.

 

[moritheil]

The implication is that a "normal" effect is what happens when one does not save. For example, a fireball cast by a 10th wizard normally does 10d6 damage; it only does half (or less) if one makes a Reflex save, is protected from fire, or otherwise has something unusual going on.

 

[Scharlata]

Is the normal effect that of the spell when you have succeeded on your save, or does this mean, that when you use Absorb Spell and fail, you suffer the effect as if you had not succeeded on your save (a prerequisite to use Absorb Spell is to succeed on the save first).

Hi!

To absorb a spell that targets him, a spellthief must succeed on a level check (1d20 + spellthief class level) against a DC of 10 + the spell's caster level. Failure indicates that the spell has its normal effect. Success means that the spellthief suffers no effect from the spell and can cast the spell later [...]

To absorb a spell, you must succeed on a CASTER LEVEL CHECK (not Saving Throw). If you weren't successfull, you are affected by the spell as usual; meaning you get your save (if applicable), you check your Spell Resistance, and you apply any modifiers to the save (Elf, Dwarf, etc.)

Enjoy!

 

[Thanee]

Read the ability from the beginning. You can only use it on a spell after you succeeded on your save already.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Scharlata]

Read the ability from the beginning. You can only use it on a spell after you succeeded on your save already

Hi!

Ah, now I see...

You seem to be convinced that the 1st paragraph is integral part of the game mechanics (crunch) as in:
Successful save = Caster Level check = absorbtion (if successful) or normal effect (if unsuccessful).

I'm strongly convinced that the 1st paragraph is only the introduction into the game mechanics (fluff) as in:
Caster Level check = absorbtion (if successful) or normal effect (if unsuccessful).

Does that solve your "problem"?

Enjoy!

 

[Thanee]

Does that solve your "problem"?

No.

Clearly, you need to first succeed on your save, then if you did so, you can use the Absorption power. If it succeeds you absorb the spell. Fine. If you do not succeed you suffer the spell's 'normal effect', whatever that is.

I can see two possible answers, both seem viable:

a) Normal means normal without using the Absorption power... that is the effect the spell has with a successful save, since you already succeeded there.

b) Normal means the full effect of the spell, when the save was unsuccessful, basically you risk negating your successful save as a cost to use the Absorption power.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Scharlata]

Hi!

I'm still not convinced that it should function as you've pointed out, because a spellthief then can't absorb a spell that doesn't allow a Saving Throw in the first place. This explicit exclusion isn't stated in the description, so I guess that wasn't the intent of the class feature.

But,... if you stick to your reading, I'd go with option a). Normal means: You fail to absorb the spell and suffer the effect(s) of a successful save against it, if applicable.

Enjoy!

 

[Thanee]

Yep, it does mean, that you cannot absorb spells, which allow no save.

But I don't really see how this first sentence can be read in any other way, or rather, it would be a pretty wide stretch to assume they meant the caster level check with 'a successful save' there.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Scharlata]

Hi!

THIS IS TOTALLY UNOFFICIAL, but, as you'll see, it seems to be a general problem that needs to be addressed.

Source: http://boards.wizards.com/showthread.php?referrerid=406019&t=611940
Emphasis added.

Absorb Spell (Su): Beginning at 7th level, if a spellthief makes a successful save against a spell that targets him, he can attempt to absorb the spell energy for later use. This ability affects only spells that have the spellthief as a target, not effect or area spells (at least until 13th level, see below). A spellthief can't absorb a spell of a higher level than he could steal with his steal spell ability (see above).

To absorb a spell that targets him, a spellthief must succeed on a level check (1d20 + spellthief level) against a DC of 10 + the spell's caster level. Failure indicates [...] the spell has its normal effect. Success means that the spellthief suffers no effect from the spell and can cast the spell later (or use its energy to cast one of his own spells known) as if he had stolen the spell with his steal spell ability. His normal limit of total spell levels stolen still applies.

If a spell targets the spellthief but only allows a saving throw for a partial effect, if he makes a successful save and then succeeds on his level check, he absorbs the spell without suffering even that partial effect (such as half damage from a fireball). If a spell targets the spellthief but normally does not allow a saving throw, the spellthief is allowed to attempt as special save against what the spell's DC would be if it had one (type determined by DM as appropriate, for example, a Reflex save against scorching ray). If he succeeds at the special saving throw he can attempt his level check to absorb the spell without harm, but if he fails either the saving throw or the level check, he suffers the full effect of the spell as normal.
At 13th level or higher, a spellthief can attempt to absorb even effect or area spells that would affect him. At 19th level or higher, a spellthief can choose to use the stolen spell energy as an immediate action, either to recast the original spell or to cast one of his own spells.

Kind regards