Warning: Somewhat long post
Particle_Man said:
This thread is making me see the value of using Core Rules Only. I imagine that the maximum AC at 6th level would be considerably lower, then.
If by "considerably" you mean 6 points lower, then you are correct. Everything in my 55 AC build was core-only save for the Alter Self cast via Anyspell (PGtF).
Edit: Divine Spell Power and Divine Shield are also non-core.
Psion said:
When compared to pun-pun, getting 56 AC is not especially impressive. Given the great variety of books out there, some power-gamey combos are possible. That some power gamers feel the need to abuse that is regretable, but mostly correctable.
Dude, what
is impressive when compared to pun-pun? Also, it doesn't take a "great variety of books" to generate an optimized character, or "power-gamey" as you put it, as the core rules can provide significantly powerful characters and builds. Utilizing most of these rules to create an effective character is not regretable, but encouragable in my opinion. Obviously, with great power comes even greater responsibility as a role-player, however.
Darklone said:
Hannibal, I like your cleric6 stuff.... it's nearly all PHB right?
It's expensive to pull off... but looks cool. Even if something might be wrong, that turtle deserves the name.
Thanks. Honestly, I just threw every AC boosting effect I could think of off the top of my head and it turned out decent and playable. The only thing non-Phb is the Anyspell spell from the Player's Guide to Faerun. That's how I get the +6 natural armor bonus to enhance with Barkskin. Helpful, but far from necessary.
Rhun said:
I have to agree with Iku Rex that flavor text does not override game mechanics
While I agree, how does one specifically differentiate "flavor text" from "game mechanics?" I can think of a few Prc requirements that appear to be nothing but flavor text.
Squire James said:
Frankly, I think 99% of this high-AC nonesense happens because Polymorph effects can grant huge chunks of natural AC. Fortunately, my players show no interest in Polymorph abuse, and if they did I'd have to take measures. Like declaring all magical items are absorbed into the new form whether it happens to be humanoid or not.
Actually, I think WotC should nix Polymorph as a spell and keep it as a sub-type. Then all they need to do is make sure the ridiculous forms are sufficiently high-level spells. In exchange, make some weaker forms that can be used by low-level casters.
Have you read the PhBII's description of the polymorph subschool? As per this rules change, all gear worn or carried melds into the new form. Also, you lose all class features and special abilities. If this doesn't balance Polymorph, I don't know what will. WotC's feeble attempts are the Trollshape and Dragonshape spells (PhBII again) which are powerful in their own right, but simply pale in comparison to Polymorph and Shapechange, respectively.
Deset Gled said:
This puts me within striking range of your AC 56 character using no items other than a mundane crossbow, using only spells that the character can cast themselves, and using only the core books. It is also about a hundred times "easier" than any of the min-maxed AC builds I've seen posted in this thread
Ok, so you get one attack, every other round, and you need a 18-20 to hit the ACs presented...doesn't make for a very sound argument, considering the minimal use of non-core material used to generate a high AC.
Sejs said:
Granted, but it may be all you need. Likewise, as with most super-ac builds, a single dispel magic brings the whole thing crashing down.
Note that in any spellcasting-based high AC build, caster level modification is essential and, therefore, makes dispelling much more difficult in an appropriate CR encounter. Also note that Dispel Magic actually only dispels one spell at a time.
Endur said:
High defense while lacking offense and other playability out of combat is a waste of time.
Alter Form and Polymorph, while good for silly builds, are almost never used in real D&D combat situations. Because it isn't fun to be polymorphed into another race, unless you are a Druid or a shapechanging wizard or some class that treats shapechanging as normal.
The best offense is a good defense. At least there are many that adhere to this particular doctrine.
I'm not sure what you mean by "real D&D," but in the campaigns I've played in Polymorph and Alter Self have seen extensive use. It is extremely entertaining to play a frail wizard type that, when required to participate in melee combat, can become an effective combatant through the use of such spells. It also makes for a great escape plan and situational problem solver, as it can grant flight capabilities, reach, specific damage types (slashing, piercing, bludgeoning), swim/burrow/climb speed, and an effective disguise.
Your statement is not only generalized, but just plain wrong.
Infiniti2000 said:
Once again, we ask you to show us the easy (not hard) way. I'm positive I'm not alone when I say that no one has yet given an easy way to AC 50-something. On the other hand, I'd say that Deset Gled offered an easy way to +37 attack bonus
What constitutes "easy" in your opinion? Casting a few spells is pretty damn easy for any cleric and, as Deset Gled has shown, any wizard as well. If boosting one's attack bonus through the use of magic is "easy" then so, too, is enhancing one's armor class.
Cabral said:
That's an effective bonus of more than +62 to hit (+42 when not using true strike) without taking into account strength enhancing magic items or even a masterwork weapon. With True Strike, it's an autohit against your "nigh untouchable AC."
Spells and powers that allow a character to bypass specific aspects of another's AC is not a bonus to hit and should, therefore, not be included in this particular discussion, IMO. Otherwise one word destroys a massive amount of AC potential: Wraithstrike.
*whew* Finally, where did the OP go? S/he hasn't posted since the first page.