ACK! I Hate level 15!!

[Mystery Man]

In regards to going extraplanar and modules. I'm trying to work in githyanki and the astral plane hopefully moving into the Lich Queen adventure in Dungeon 100.

I worry less about what the PCs can handle actually. I still try to find things that are appropriate challenges, but I sweat it less. I tell my players up front that as they get higher in levels they have so many options available to them that I stop worrying about the "solutions". I just try to keep the story engaging, the stakes high, and the affect of the PCs on the game world are very noticable.

Sweating it less, philosophy adopted.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Paladin/Fist of Raziel (anything evil does not want to stand in front of this combo believe me)
Sorcerer/Spellsword
Sorcerer/Rogue/Arcane Trickster
Ranger/Peerless Archer (he can empty his quiver very quickly)

All have a class level of 15. The bulk of their cash goes to protection, armor and healing potions/wands etc. (no cleric) .

OK, I can kind of see your problem. You have lots of damage output, but only the paladin can take a punch. So really, the question for the group is "can we kill the beastie before the holy boy buys it?"

Tricky.

This isn't terrible though. What I was really worried about was if you had a druid. You can toss this party pretty much anywhere. Maybe the astral? Githyanki are always up for a good time. Which may be somethign else to consider. If you haven't used psi by now, you can introduce it and scare the bejeezers out of the party as they try to cope with this "new magic". Don't actually tell them its psi and don't let them know you're using the psi rules. Just have a whole bunch of Psi-Warriors get all matrix on their butt and have your Big Bad End Boss protected by psions or whatever. That'll throw 'em.

EDIT: Apparently MM came up with a similar idea just seconds before I did! Coincidence? Or are we forming a hive mind?

 

[Narfellus]

I'd have to say start a new lower level campaign. DnD assumes you aren't epic level until 21st +...I'd argue that it happens much lower. By the time you can teleport across worlds and planes, and wield weapons of supernatural destruction, the only way to up the ante is continue throwing tougher and tougher foes at the party (of course, that's the strategy at lower level too, but at least it has the semblance of reality).

I always had my players level slower than what default DnD suggests so they wouldn't make it to the upper eschelons of the class system.

 

[Darmanicus]

For me its:

Paladin/Fist of Raziel (anything evil does not want to stand in front of this combo believe me)
.

You got that right.

 

[Mystery Man]

Man.

Just what level are the mobsters in your campaign?

Amywhere from 12 to 22 in various combos and quantities. I've seen them rip through a level 20 encounter like butter and have trouble with lower EL (presumably) encounters. My source of pain does not come from what they can do so much (although it can be ego shattering) but how to challenge them without going over the top and slaughtering them in one round. Two rounds is fine, at least they had a chance.

Some great advice so far though.

 

[Dimwhit]

My suggestion would be to skip coming up with monsters and start coming up with equal-level NPCs to fight. A nice band of 4 15th-level villians will be more than a handful.

Combats like that tend to be the toughest for our groups.

 

[Mystery Man]

OK, I can kind of see your problem. You have lots of damage output, but only the paladin can take a punch. So really, the question for the group is "can we kill the beastie before the holy boy buys it?"

So very, very true.

This isn't terrible though. What I was really worried about was if you had a druid. You can toss this party pretty much anywhere. Maybe the astral? Githyanki are always up for a good time. Which may be somethign else to consider. If you haven't used psi by now, you can introduce it and scare the bejeezers out of the party as they try to cope with this "new magic". Don't actually tell them its psi and don't let them know you're using the psi rules. Just have a whole bunch of Psi-Warriors get all matrix on their butt and have your Big Bad End Boss protected by psions or whatever. That'll throw 'em.

Amazingly I did start to throw just a smidgen of psi at them, I'll ramp that up.

EDIT: Apparently MM came up with a similar idea just seconds before I did! Coincidence? Or are we forming a hive mind?

It certainly seems to be.

 

[Nifft]

meh

I wouldn't worry about this "PC survival" cruft.

Death & revival are NOT infrequent events at this level.

Make it so if even one of them gets away, they can all return to life (with different, and far inferior, equipment perhaps).

And their enemies can do the same... mua-ha-ha-ha!

-- N

 

[Sir ThornCrest]

Give the characters the ability to be retired with dignity. Give them a goal; you want your keep and lands, maybe a lordship? The party members maybe want to open a joint business? Maybe a bar in some huge city or in remote area? Maybe on another plane who knows? Maybe the party members want to open a business each the fighter wants to open a war college? The wizard a wizard school, the psion a psi temple? Have them find a perfect town...

Point is make this a goal and then show them some obvious problems in there way. This town already has a recently appointed new govt....several other adventurers but they are evil and milking the whole town for everthing its worth. They may encounter the villian subs 1 at a time then the villians get wise and strike party with ruthless efficiency. Make them classes/character types, my favorite for high level campaigns is pit the party against a crafty int enemy –A evil party of adventurers almost equaling the party’s if not outright rivaling! Make them tough with magicals that they know how to use, they should have some special abilities/magicals to confuse party.

Mix up the classes An Assassin/Shadow dancer, have this guy kill the paladins horse, have him then target the Wizards familiar, the druids animal companion. Make him a real SOB! Every 3 rounds he will attack and kill 1 of the party’s subordinates, or at least try to, make him specialize in gorilla warfare, stay out of sight yet he sees inviso. etc. This will get your party excited very quickly!!!! This is his fav tactic because it weakens the party and doesnt endanger him as much, or so his theory claims.

A Cerebramancer at 15th level will cast as a 12th level wizard and manifest as a 12th level Psion. Pick his powers & feats intelligently and couple them with his spells and you have a very potent stand back and fry the enemy kinda guy........hint maximized mind thrust vs warrior types & have him sick his astral constructs on the party cleric & Wizards....to piss off the party rogue have him sick an astral construct with a 29 or more str, that grapples. very very powerful. He should be covered in tattoos and a couple of contingency spells/contigency via contigency feat just to insure a get away if needed...he will escape and be healed and return with something even worse for the party almost immediately!!!

With these two main bad guys just add on a couple of meat heads with really really high AC's, make the party happy when they hit, have the meat heads beefed with stoneskin etc. Sorlyns floating disc gives a +10 AC from ? book but it was a 3rd level spell. Give them great buffs to saves, immunities to a couple of energy types. There to hit and damage mayb e slightly lowered to compensate for such a high defense

Make the Mind control guy a Vampire lord? Very very powerfull and he looks normal so the party will never know he is a vamp! He will have several vamps he summons to attack in his rather potent darkness spell......darkness from some evil powerfull magic item something the party cant over come or dispel...

Thorncrest
Give the characters the ability to be retired with dignety. But make em pay dearly!!!

 

[Sir ThornCrest]

I spent so much time typing my long winded response post that you said the exact same thing I was thinking of GORSH DARN IT BEEV!!!

My suggestion would be to skip coming up with monsters and start coming up with equal-level NPCs to fight. A nice band of 4 15th-level villians will be more than a handful.

Combats like that tend to be the toughest for our groups.