Activating a scroll

[Hypersmurf]

DMG p213:
Activating a magic item is a standard action unless the item description indicates otherwise. However, the casting time of a spell is the time required to activate the same power in an item, whether it's a scroll, a wand, or a pair of boots, unless the item description specifically states otherwise.

The castin' time o' Swift Fly be one swift action. The item description for scrolls does not 'specifically state otherwise'; therefore the time required to activate a scroll o' Swift Fly be one swift action.

Compare this with wands, for example; the item description o' wands be statin' that the activation time be a standard action, or the castin' time o' the spell if it be longer. The activation time o' Swift Fly from a wand, therefore, be one standard action.

-Hyp.

 

[irdeggman]

And it always generates an AoO, regardless of the actual casting time.

Spell Completion Items: Activating a spell completion item is the equivalent of casting a spell. It requires concentration and provokes attacks of opportunity. You lose the spell if your concentration is broken, and you can attempt to activate the item while on the defensive, as with casting a spell.


Spell Completion: This is the activation method for scrolls. A scroll is a spell that is mostly finished. The preparation is done for the caster, so no preparation time is needed beforehand as with normal spellcasting. All that’s left to do is perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting (the final gestures, words, and so on). To use a spell completion item safely, a character must be of high enough level in the right class to cast the spell already. If he can’t already cast the spell, there’s a chance he’ll make a mistake. Activating a spell completion item is a standard action and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does.

Activate the Spell: Activating a scroll requires reading the spell from the scroll. The character must be able to see and read the writing on the scroll. Activating a scroll spell requires no material components or focus. (The creator of the scroll provided these when scribing the scroll.) Note that some spells are effective only when cast on an item or items. In such a case, the scroll user must provide the item when activating the spell. Activating a scroll spell is subject to disruption just as casting a normally prepared spell would be. Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance.
To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

I guess I'm an odd DM.

I have all of the spells take the casting time of the spell to read off of a scroll. And scrolls of Feather Fall fall into my range of weird standard items ... they're tiny little things that can be placed on a part of the body like a wrist or wrapped like a ring around a finger.

And the verbal component is "OH $)(!#" in the caster's common language. Because it's easy to remember to say when you're falling off a cliff.

--fje

 

[Hypersmurf]

I guess I'm an odd DM.

I have all of the spells take the casting time of the spell to read off of a scroll.

What's odd about that? It's the rule

-Hyp.

 

[Izerath]

Read the entire rules passage please.

(ins. Using items, 2nd paragraph) DMG p213:
Activating a magic item is a standard action unless the item description indicates otherwise. However, the casting time of a spell is the time required to activate the same power in an item, whether it's a scroll, a wand, or a pair of boots, unless the item description specifically states otherwise.

The castin' time o' Swift Fly be one swift action. The item description for scrolls does not 'specifically state otherwise'; therefore the time required to activate a scroll o' Swift Fly be one swift action.

Compare this with wands, for example; the item description o' wands be statin' that the activation time be a standard action, or the castin' time o' the spell if it be longer. The activation time o' Swift Fly from a wand, therefore, be one standard action.

Originally Posted by SRD (ins. Also DMG p213)
Spell Completion: This is the activation method for scrolls. A scroll is a spell that is mostly finished. The preparation is done for the caster, so no preparation time is needed beforehand as with normal spellcasting. All that’s left to do is perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting (the final gestures, words, and so on). To use a spell completion item safely, a character must be of high enough level in the right class to cast the spell already. If he can’t already cast the spell, there’s a chance he’ll make a mistake. Activating a spell completion item is a standard action and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as
casting a spell does.

Well, I disagree with ol' Piratesmurf. Mikebr99's got it right.

Under SPELL COMPLETION (DMG p 213), scrolls are clearly defined as spell completion items and thus by definition require a standard action to use. The first sentence under the Spell completion definition could not state so more plainly.

Piratesmurf's quote comes from the previous passage in the same section of the DMG introducing the "Using Items" section and his quote is incomplete. Read down one sentence more and voila. Scrolls are spell completion items. The first seven words under the spell completion definition following the introductory passage are crystal clear.

"This is the activation method for scrolls."..."Activating a spell completion item is a standard action and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does."

Secondly, "Swift" feats are secondary to primary rule sources. I don't see a "CORE RULEBOOK" footer on any of the "Complete xxx" series books and that footer is not on the Expanded Psionics Handbook, where the idea of swift actions was "born." Swift feats applied to scrolls cannot and should not happen by definition. RAW say reading scrolls are standard actions, regardless of feats applied to said spells. Period. End of story. Swift feats are supplimental rules, not RAW. Using a scroll is a standard action.

Want more proof?? See Table 8-2: Actions in Combat (PH p 141) "Read a scroll" is under Standard action header and provokes AoOs.

So you ask - what about Quickened spells? Try this - it's even from the correct but partial portion of "Using Items" from Hyp.'s quote from the DMG:

"However, the casting time of a spell is the time required to activate the same power in an item ( emphasis added), whether it's a scroll, a wand, or a pair of boots, unless the item description specifically states otherwise."

I don't see a single word in those fabled 7 words under spell completion that say otherwise. Plain as day, scrolls are spell-completion items and require a standard action to use. Thus, quickening a scroll is pointless, just as swift spells on scrolls are pointless.

Lastly, retrieving a stored item requires a move-equivalent action. Getting that scroll from your backpack, pouch or belt is still going to take you half the round, so it is pointless yet again.

My advice - spend your XP and money on something more useful, like putting full-round spells or 10 minute casting-time spells on scrolls. Now THAT is a useful option that is allowed by the RAW.

Now, that said, if you want scrolls to be "quickened, swift or otherwise," then feel free.

Realize you are not following the RAW. It's perfectly fine to break from them, but IMO it undermines the value of having these feats in the first place. Given how cheap scrolls are to create and purchase, allowing metamagic feats on scrolls which decrease casting time is a recipe for abuse. It takes a move action to grab the scroll in the first place and then a standard action to read it in the same round.

Good luck on making your decision. Just remember, use what is fun for you. If casting swift spells from scrolls is fun, then have at it! If you're looking for some consistency in rules, then RAW is for you....

Peace.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Under SPELL COMPLETION (DMG p 213), scrolls are clearly defined as spell completion items and thus by definition require a standard action to use. The first sentence under the Spell completion definition could not state so more plainly.

And yet that's overruled by the above passage. Items require a standard action to activate unless stated otherwise... except when they're duplicating a spell.

Piratesmurf's quote comes from the previous passage in the same section of the DMG introducing the "Using Items" section and his quote is incomplete. Read down one sentence more and voila. Scrolls are spell completion items. The first seven words under the spell completion definition following the introductory passage are crystal clear.

But note - this does not appear in the item description, and we have a rule further up that says that the casting time of the spell is the activation time of the item, whether it's a scroll, etc, unless the item description specifically states otherwise.

The Spell Completion section is not the item description. It's the activation method description... and we know that the activation time of an item that duplicates a spell is dependent on the casting time of the spell, rather than being the usual standard action.

Secondly, "Swift" feats are secondary to primary rule sources. I don't see a "CORE RULEBOOK" footer on any of the "Complete xxx" series books and that footer is not on the Expanded Psionics Handbook, where the idea of swift actions was "born." Swift feats applied to scrolls cannot and should not happen by definition. RAW say reading scrolls are standard actions, regardless of feats applied to said spells. Period. End of story. Swift feats are supplimental rules, not RAW. Using a scroll is a standard action.

I wasn't referring to a feat, but to the spell Swift Fly from Complete Adventurer. But for Core, we can just use Feather Fall.

Want more proof?? See Table 8-2: Actions in Combat (PH p 141) "Read a scroll" is under Standard action header and provokes AoOs.

So is 'Cast a Spell', but again, we have Feather Fall.

So you ask - what about Quickened spells? Try this - it's even from the correct but partial portion of "Using Items" from Hyp.'s quote from the DMG:

Hmm? I'm not sure how your emphasis changes anything.

However, the casting time of a spell - the casting time of Quickened spell is a free action - is the time required to activate the same power in an item, whether it's a scroll, a wand, or a pair of boots, unless the item description specifically states otherwise.

So, the time required to activate a Quickened spell in an item is a free action, unless the item description specifically states otherwise. And it doesn't.

Lastly, retrieving a stored item requires a move-equivalent action. Getting that scroll from your backpack, pouch or belt is still going to take you half the round, so it is pointless yet again.

Now, this, I have no argument with. Retrieving your scroll with the free-action activation time is a move action, barring unusual circumstances.

My advice - spend your XP and money on something more useful, like putting full-round spells or 10 minute casting-time spells on scrolls. Now THAT is a useful option that is allowed by the RAW.

The casting time of the spell - 10 minutes - is the time required to activate the same power in an item. To read a 10 minute spell off a scroll takes 10 minutes. Unless the item description states otherwise, but it doesn't.

-Hyp.

 

[Nim]

Under SPELL COMPLETION (DMG p 213), scrolls are clearly defined as spell completion items and thus by definition require a standard action to use. The first sentence under the Spell completion definition could not state so more plainly.

Hmm.

The problem I see with this argument is that all four activation methods (Spell Completion, Spell Trigger, Command Word, Use Activated) specify the type of action required. So, if we accept that all scrolls are standard actions to use by virtue of being Spell Completion items (and not affected by the 'casting time of a spell is the time required to activate an item' statement, because the spell completion description says otherwise), then the entire second paragraph under Magic Items is useless fluff. Blah blah blah 'unless the item description indicates otherwise', and every method of activation does so indicate.

So. I see two options: either that second paragraph under 'Magic Items' is just a waste of space, or the phrase 'unless the item description specifically states otherwise' was meant to refer to only the actual ITEM description, not the description of the activation method.

 

[frankthedm]

The preparation is done for the caster, so no preparation time is needed beforehand as with normal spellcasting

Most spellcasters prepare their spells in advance—whether from a spellbook or through devout prayers and meditation— while some cast spells spontaneously without preparation.


The scroll eliminates the preparation time, not casting time in this line of text. The rest is hazy.




USING ITEMS
To use a magic item, it must be activated, although sometimes activation simply means putting a ring on your finger. Some items, once donned, function constantly. In most cases, using an item requires a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. By contrast, spell completion items are treated like spells in combat and do provoke attacks of opportunity.
Activating a magic item is a standard action unless the item description indicates otherwise. However, the casting time of a spell is the time required to activate the same power in an item, regardless of the type of magic item, unless the item description specifically states otherwise.
The four ways to activate magic items are described below.
Spell Completion: This is the activation method for scrolls. A scroll is a spell that is mostly finished. The preparation is done for the caster, so no preparation time is needed beforehand as with normal spellcasting. All that’s left to do is perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting (the final gestures, words, and so on). To use a spell completion item safely, a character must be of high enough level in the right class to cast the spell already. If he can’t already cast the spell, there’s a chance he’ll make a mistake. Activating a spell completion item is a standard action and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does.



SCROLLS
A scroll is a spell (or collection of spells) that has been stored in written form. A spell on a scroll can be used only once. The writing vanishes from the scroll when the spell is activated. Using a scroll is basically like casting a spell.
Physical Description: A scroll is a heavy sheet of fine vellum or high-quality paper. An area about 8 1/2 inches wide and 11 inches long is sufficient to hold one spell. The sheet is reinforced at the top and bottom with strips of leather slightly longer than the sheet is wide. A scroll holding more than one spell has the same width (about 8 1/2 inches) but is an extra foot or so long for each extra spell. Scrolls that hold three or more spells are usually fitted with reinforcing rods at each end rather than simple strips of leather. A scroll has AC 9, 1 hit point, hardness 0, and a break DC of 8.
To protect it from wrinkling or tearing, a scroll is rolled up from both ends to form a double cylinder. (This also helps the user unroll the scroll quickly.) The scroll is placed in a tube of ivory, jade, leather, metal, or wood. Most scroll cases are inscribed with magic symbols which often identify the owner or the spells stored on the scrolls inside. The symbols often hide magic traps.
Activation: To activate a scroll, a spellcaster must read the spell written on it. Doing so involves several steps and conditions.
Decipher the Writing: The writing on a scroll must be deciphered before a character can use it or know exactly what spell it contains. This requires a read magic spell or a successful Spellcraft check (DC 20 + spell level).
Deciphering a scroll to determine its contents does not activate its magic unless it is a specially prepared cursed scroll. A character can decipher the writing on a scroll in advance so that he or she can proceed directly to the next step when the time comes to use the scroll.
Activate the Spell: Activating a scroll requires reading the spell from the scroll. The character must be able to see and read the writing on the scroll. Activating a scroll spell requires no material components or focus. (The creator of the scroll provided these when scribing the scroll.) Note that some spells are effective only when cast on an item or items. In such a case, the scroll user must provide the item when activating the spell. Activating a scroll spell is subject to disruption just as casting a normally prepared spell would be. Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance.
To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.
• The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)
• The user must have the spell on his or her class list.
• The user must have the requisite ability score.
If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell’s caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps, below). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers.
Determine Effect: A spell successfully activated from a scroll works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way. Assume the scroll spell’s caster level is always the minimum level required to cast the spell for the character who scribed the scroll (usually twice the spell’s level, minus 1), unless the caster specifically desires otherwise.

 

[irdeggman]

Secondly, "Swift" feats are secondary to primary rule sources. I don't see a "CORE RULEBOOK" footer on any of the "Complete xxx" series books and that footer is not on the Expanded Psionics Handbook, where the idea of swift actions was "born." Swift feats applied to scrolls cannot and should not happen by definition. RAW say reading scrolls are standard actions, regardless of feats applied to said spells. Period. End of story. Swift feats are supplimental rules, not RAW. Using a scroll is a standard action.

True but yet it (the definitions of swift and immediate actions) are in the SRD. Now before you say that the SRD isn't "Official" rules and is a secondary source - note that only the SRD (and FAQ) have the text stating that Prestige classes do not count towards multiclassing penalties.

From the SRD:

New Action Types
Swift Action: A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. However, you can perform only a single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take. You can take a swift action any time you would normally be allowed to take a free action. Swift actions usually involve psionics or the activation of psionic items; many characters (especially those who don’t use psionics) never have an opportunity to take a swift action.

Manifesting a quickened power is a swift action. In addition, manifesting any power with a casting time of 1 swift action is a swift action.

Manifesting a power with a manifesting time of 1 swift action does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Immediate Action: Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time—even if it’s not your turn. Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action, and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are currently flat-footed.

MANIFESTING TIME
Most powers have a manifesing time of 1 standard action. Others take 1 round or more, while a few require only a free action.

A power that takes 1 round to manifest requires a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began manifesting the power. You then act normally after the power is completed.

A power that takes 1 minute to manifest comes into effect just before your turn 1 minute later (and for each of those 10 rounds, you are manifesting a power as a full-round action, as noted above for 1-round manifesting times). These actions must be consecutive and uninterrupted, or the power points are lost and the power fails.

When you use a power that takes 1 round or longer to manifest, you must continue the concentration from the current round to just before your turn in the next round (at least). If you lose concentration before the manifesting time is complete, the power points are lost and the power fails.

You make all pertinent decisions about a power (range, target, area, effect, version, and so forth) when the power comes into effect.

QUICKEN POWER [METAPSIONIC]
You can manifest a power with a moment’s thought.
Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. You can quicken a power. You can perform another action, even manifest another power, in the same round that you manifest a quickened power. You can manifest only one quickened power per round. A power whose manifesting time is longer than 1 round cannot be quickened.

Using this feat increases the power point cost of the power by 6. The power’s total cost cannot exceed your manifester level.

Manifesting a quickened power does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

CASTING TIME
Most spells have a casting time of 1 standard action. Others take 1 round or more, while a few require only a free action.

A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed.

A spell that takes 1 minute to cast comes into effect just before your turn 1 minute later (and for each of those 10 rounds, you are casting a spell as a full-round action, just as noted above for 1- round casting times). These actions must be consecutive and uninterrupted, or the spell automatically fails.

When you begin a spell that takes 1 round or longer to cast, you must continue the concentration from the current round to just before your turn in the next round (at least). If you lose concentration before the casting is complete, you lose the spell.

A spell with a casting time of 1 free action doesn’t count against your normal limit of one spell per round. However, you may cast such a spell only once per round. Casting a spell with a casting time of 1 free action doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity.

You make all pertinent decisions about a spell (range, target, area, effect, version, and so forth) when the spell comes into effect.

QUICKEN SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: Casting a quickened spell is a free action. You can perform another action, even casting another spell, in the same round as you cast a quickened spell. You may cast only one quickened spell per round. A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full round action cannot be quickened. A quickened spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell’s actual level. Casting a quickened spell doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity.

Special: This feat can’t be applied to any spell cast spontaneously (including sorcerer spells, bard spells, and cleric or druid spells cast spontaneously), since applying a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast spell automatically increases the casting time to a full-round action.

 

[TheGogmagog]

Now the question is, other than gloves of storing, how many ways can you store a scroll and still have it ready as a free action? A scroll of feather fall isn't too useful if you have to search through your pack trying to find it.

I'm not 100% on this but Forgotten Realms campaign setting has a masterwork scroll case that allows retrieving a scroll as a free action. I might be thinking of the bandoleer though.

You can also use quickened or swift scrolls by: 1) move - retrieve scrolls 2) cast standard action spell 3) cast quickened scroll. or 1) Retrieve scroll of featherfall 2) walk across crickety bridge.

Or as the other DM above did, consider the completion of a first level scroll of featherfall small enough to be stored on a sleeve.