Actual age of the 4th edition player base

[Lonely Tylenol]

Strawman argument. But then, it seems that the current culture is bad, that young ones are stupid, etc... or so it's the classical grognard message. Yuck.

It's not a strawman argument, it's just patently false.

 

[MerricB]

There's a group of children in the school I work at playing D&D - currently in year 11, although they started a couple of years ago.

I game with people aged 18-40+.

Cheers!

 

[RandomCitizenX]

I disagree.

The target audience should be 30 to 40 if they are smart.

"snip"

There is a reason why there are currently about 60% of all DND players between the ages of 30 and 40, not between the ages of 20 and 30 (which is probably closer to 20%, another 10% under 20 and 10% over 40). And, it is for social and cultural reasons. And as the years go by, the bell curve on age will probably not move or change shape a lot. More people entering their late 20s and early 30s will start playing DND and more people entering their 40s or 50s will stop playing it and find other activities.

Theoretically, 30 to 40 (give or take a few years either way) should be the target audience of WotC and DND forever because age based social pressures and influences do not change that drastically.

I am not disputing your numbers, but I am just curious what you are basing them on. I personally only know 3 players who are in the over thirty age range in my area. A vast majority are in their mid twenties like myself, and many are in their very late teens.

The reason I think that the 30 to 40 target age is a bit off is most people in that age whom I know are fairly set in what sort of hobbies they will indulge. They may have more income and be settling down and what not, but unless they were someone who already had a fringe interest in the game then odds are they will never even give it a second glance. Many people in the mid teens through college on the other hand usually have much less responsability and are looking for new things to try. If WotC wants D&D successful they need to make it grow, and to encourage growth they need to target the audience most likely to bring in new customers while not neglecting the older base.

 

[HeinorNY]

deleted

 

[KarinsDad]

I am not disputing your numbers, but I am just curious what you are basing them on. I personally only know 3 players who are in the over thirty age range in my area. A vast majority are in their mid twenties like myself, and many are in their very late teens.

I'm basing it off the two "year you were born" polls here at ENWorld. Granted, it could be a bit high (because the polls were taken here), but probably not by that much.

I really should change that date range though because it is misleading. The mid-range data works out to:

Poll 1:
80%: age 24 to 41
60%: age 28 to 38
Mode: 33. Median: 34. Mean: 33.4

Poll 2:
80%: age 24 to 40
60%: age 27 to 38
Mode: 33. Median: 33. Mean: 32.6

So, I really should say age 27 to 38 (the more recent poll), not 30 to 40 (even though that is also a 60% range, it is not the mid 60% range and was totally misleading).

Also note that the average age in the polls decreased by almost a year (poll 1 was started two and a half years ago, poll 2 was started last week). That's within statistical variance, but it could also indicate that average age is actually decreasing. This could be due to other more popular forms of Science Fantasy entertainment like WoW bringing more players in. Or, it could be nothing at all, just statistical white noise.

The reason I think that the 30 to 40 target age is a bit off is most people in that age whom I know are fairly set in what sort of hobbies they will indulge. They may have more income and be settling down and what not, but unless they were someone who already had a fringe interest in the game then odds are they will never even give it a second glance. Many people in the mid teens through college on the other hand usually have much less responsability and are looking for new things to try.

It's not hard to have a fringe interest in science fantasy.

For example, it's easy to play Everquest or WoW or even DND in college and then drop it, and then pick up DND again in one's late 20s or early 30s.

The point is not when people get interested in the game, the point really is when people start finding time in their life to play the game and when they have enough disposable income to purchase game elements (like books, miniatures, etc.).

College years are often too busy with other things (for many people, not all people) and so sometimes are the first few years out of college (with dating and other social entertainments), but by the mid-20s, things often start changing.

If WotC wants D&D successful they need to make it grow, and to encourage growth they need to target the audience most likely to bring in new customers while not neglecting the older base.

I'm not convinced this is possible with one version of the game system. Something that interests mid-teens will often be something that totally turns 30 year olds off.

A similar situation occurred in the chess world 20 years ago. A few years after the Fisher craze of 35 years ago when chess hit the U.S. big time, it started slowing down again. So, the USCF hit upon the idea of getting people interested in the game at a young age, they put out a monthly youth magazine called Schoolmates, they had young age tournaments, went into schools, etc.

For chess, this worked out reasonably well. And I think something similar could work for DND.

I agree with you. Getting young people interested in DND will help the gaming community immensely.

But, using a single version 4E to do it will fail to grow the industry IMO. More or less, the industry will probably keep similar numbers as currently with a single version of the game.

Instead, what they need to do is focus target the mid-teen market with a different version of DND.

Schoolmates focused on young people and was successful for many years. Most young people did not read Chess Life (the adult monthly magazine for USCF members), they read Schoolmates (the kid monthly magazine for USCF members).

WotC should do the same for DND. Have a simpler more fantastic teenager version of the game (and teenage version of DND Insider/Gleemax) for young people, and have a slightly more mature and complex 4E version of the game for adults (note: I said slightly more complex, not significantly so). The mechanics should be very similar, but the focus should be different. For example, slightly more hack and slash / item reward based for young people, slightly more problem solving / roleplaying based for adults. Obviously, all of the elements should be in both versions, but the focus should be slightly different to engage more people in each age range.


Another problem with a single version might be that people in their mid-20s who used to play DND 4E as a teenager (in 2015) might think of it as a kids game and not even try it again. With two versions of the game where the marketing focus is "adult game" and "teen game", this might not happen as much.


And, one other thing. WotC should hire 18-20 year old game designers for the teen versions of the game and online content. People in this age range will understand teenagers a lot better than old folgies like I would.

 

[RandomCitizenX]

I'm not sure if basing the average player age on a poll from enworld is the best idea since it is a small sample of a small group, but that definately does not invalidate any of your points. I agree that having two different modes of D&D would be a great idea, but since the question was what should WotC focus on with their one line I put forth the mid teens to college as the better target group. The number of younger people who are sticking with the same hobbies through high school and college seems to be increasing, especially if we observe the shift in target audience that the video game industry has gone through. I think that the chance that a customer on the high school level will stick with the game is pretty high. The group of gamers I formerly gamed with is one such group. They played all through high school, college, and continue to meet to this day (even if I have moved to another group).

Back to the dual line strategy. I don't think WotC is even considering the old Basic/Advanced distinction which can be a shame since there is honestly some great potential there. Maybe they could release some "Classic" D&D books, which would cater too the older game base while still using the same underlying mechanics. So D&D PHB would have the current line up, but the "Classic" PHB would have races and classes more in line with some of the older editions of D&D (no tiefling, eladrin, or warlock. Add back Druid and gnome). I can't say if the set aimed toward a younger audience should have simplified rules, since I started playing using the AD&D 2e rules, and never got a look at any of the basic stuff until long after.

 

[KarinsDad]

I'm not sure if basing the average player age on a poll from enworld is the best idea since it is a small sample of a small group, but that definately does not invalidate any of your points.

Most samples when calculating probability are fairly small percentage-wise.

The Nielson Ratings are ~25,000 out of ~113 million.

So, ~600-900 out of ~2-4 million is not a terribly small sample size when it comes to probability. It's fairly representative.

Maybe I'll see if I can find a poll over at Wizards (or do one myself) where the sample size should be larger.

 

[RandomCitizenX]

Usually the Nielson Ratings group is made up of a diverse sampling. What I was saying is that Enworld, although a great place, most likely does not have as diverse a membership as is needed. The internet being what it is, though, Enworld numbers are just as good as anywhere else

 

[LEHaskell]

While I know that they exist, I have never met a single gamer over 30. I mean, face to face, of course. Not a one.

You've never played an RPGA event at a Con, have you? I'm 42 and hardly the oldest one there. My guess is that at such events, the 20 and 30 somethings make up about 75% of the crowd, in equal proportion. Then there's us old farts and some kids. I know at least as many gamers over 30 as under.

My take on the target audience: the designers are making the game THEY want. And who are "they": 25 -35 year old's, many with kids. I suspect that they are designing a game that gamers parents can share with their kids: the mechanics are simplified but the core storytelling mechanic is intact. This doesn't mean it will be "dumbed down", but rather that it will me more playable right out of the box (book). From several interviews, it has become apparent that the designers are tuned into the larger gaming community (ie board gaming) and are aware that one of the big growth areas there is family gaming.

Incidentally, to return to the RPGA events: I've been amazed at the number of FAMILIES gaming at these events. In our area alone I can think of four families that routinely show up at Living Greyhawk events. I've run a table that consisted solely of one dad and five of his kids.

Oh and to answer the OP:

1) Majority: probably mid-twenties
2) Target: kids from 12 to 99
3) Started with 1e Blue Box in '79 (?) -- I think TSR beamed the information directly into the minds of 13-14 year olds that year.

 

[Deekin]

1. 19-25
2. 16-20
3. Neverwinter Nights.