Ad&d 3.0

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JRR, I've found that if you start having to loads of changes to a game system to make it play the way you want, then you're better off playing a different game system.

Also, with so many changes to classes and so many prohibited spells etc, your players are gonna more than likely take a look through the D20 SRD and feel they're getting royally screwed in your game.

Like others have suggested, you're probably better off playing AD&D or Hackmaster.

Keep in mind that any power you gain by multiclassing is at the expense of power you would have gained by continuing your progression in a single class. In my campaign I have a 6th-level character who is a cleric4/rogue1 with a +1 LA (incidentally, the only character I have with an LA and I pruned it down from a +2 LA to something more playable and on par with the other PCs) who really really really would like to cast 3rd level spells. He would be able to, had he not taken that level of rogue. And I wouldn't say that his one level of rogue makes him any more powerful than the other characters, since it didn't improve his BAB and anyway he generally avoids combat like the plague (like any true rogue would do).

You've seriously nerfed a lot of the class abilities to the point of discouraging play as a number of classes, including the rogue. Sometimes the only thing rogues have going for them is the sneak attack. I don't feel like it overpowers anything, since the rogue has to put himself at risk in order to do sneak attack damage. Also keep in mind that the 3e sneak attack IS NOT the 1st/2nd edition hide-in-the-shadows-and-backstab. It took me forever to get that through my thick skull.

Anyway, in a toe-to-toe fight with the bad guy, the rogue is gonna need that true resurrection spell you also don't allow. I wouldn't want to be a rogue in your campaign. I probably wouldn't want to be anything but a fighter in your campaign.

As far as spells that make a wizard a better fighter than a fighter, I don't buy it. A wizard either has to burn a feat (weapon proficiency) or multiclass in order to gain access to a weapon with a decent damage die -- unless he's an elf, but let's face it, the longsword proficiency for elves is a holdover from 1st edition to begin with -- and in either case he's giving up power he could have gained as a straight wizard, whether it's another spellcasting level or access to feats. But you've ruled out most item creation feats, so he's gotta spend those feats on something. Incidentally, who creates magic items in your campaign?

Why do rangers get more hit dice than fighters? Why do monks keep getting hit dice when other classes have topped out and only get a small set number of hit points per level? Is there any reason?

"I am the great archmage Merlin. Please don't hit me because I only have 60 hit points."
 

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GlassJaw said:
Why does something have to uber in order to play it? I'm playing a Drd 3/Wiz 3/MT 9 right now and it's a BLAST! I'm having the most fun I've had in 3ed in a long time. It's all in the way you play it. If you are a good player, you can make it work.

You can ask the other players and the DM in my group if my character is "uber" or not. He's saved their hide (and frustrated the DM) more than once.

Ok, enough hijacking the thread. Sorry. :uhoh:
Yeah. I think the point made by the King of Mycenae was that JRRN's fear of the EK and MT isn't really justified by the actual way these PrCs play out; IOW, they're not uber. Playable, yes; uber, no.
 


Meh - I dislike the mystic thuerge not because its broken, but because its boring.

Rather than just say 'why make it like 1e that suxx0red!' I'll actually address some points. JRR had wondered what the problem was in locking someone in at first level. It kills any form of dynamism in the game. With 3e's flexibility of character design you don't have to have a character written in stone for 20 levels. This allows for events in the campaign to shape the character mechanically. So if a cowardly thief finally stands up for himself and faces a foe head on he can take a level or two of fighter to represent that. Or a simple warrior sees the light in the gods he can convert and take a couple of levels in cleric or paladin.

This is *impossible* in AD&D or the alternate ruleset you designed. Its one of the most archaic features of AD&D and I and probably 99.9% of all players don't miss it one bit.
 

Not bad JRR. I'm waiting for C&C myself to see if it solves my many problems with the 3.x game. Getting rid of True Ressurrection, adding aging effects back into spells are a step in the right direction though, as is cutting down on the insane multiclassing of 3.x. You should also go back to the randomness of Monster Summoning spells as well. And the Pokepaladin must die.

P.S. JRR, if your players don't want to give up 3e tell them you don't want to DM it and someone else will have to run the game. Tell them you aren't having fun anymore. I did and it worked fine. We play 1e again and I'm having fun being a DM again. Now when C&C hits if it's good we will probably switch to that becuase I feel the same way as you, the base d20 mechanic is fine but the rest is not my cup of tea.
 
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The Flat-footed condition does not exist. - 1e/2e had a condition that denied dexterity bonus (It was calleds SURPRISED in 2e IIRC)

Ranged weapons fired into melee have a chance of hitting eother combatant. It’s not because you aimed poorly, but because combat is fluid and the guys fighting shift about constantly. - This is a variant rule in the DMG 3.5

Armor proficiencies do not exist. If your class doesn’t have them, you can’t get them. Multiclass if you want them bad enough. - Most people do. :)

Skills: Tumble does not exist. - Tumble has a variety of uses, and has existed since there was a proficiency system. Tumble can be used for entertainment, granting an AC bonus, and shortening falls, all important and not dealing with AoO which I can assume is why you're banning it.

If you turn your back and run from combat, anyone in range gets a melee attack against you. You may make a single move to withdraw from combat, but nothing prevents the enemy from following unless a party member decides to block him. - So the opponent gets an attack of oppertunity? ;)

Mobility, Combat reflexes, Quicken spell, persistent spell, and all item creation feats, save scribe scroll,craft wand, and brew potion, do not exist. Other feats may be nerfed or canned if they are deemed to powerful or if they are bland and lack flavor. This will be taken on a case by case basis. - Sounds like a gutting of the feat system to me....

The following spells do not exist:
All damage dealing cantrips - You mean not *gasp* Ray of Frost AND Acid Splash! 1d3 damage!
All of the Cat’s Grace, Owls Wisdom, etc spells, with the exception of Bull’s strength, which grants a 1d8 enhancement bonus and lasts 1 hour per level. - Rather have the guarenteed +4 for minutes than +1 for 8 hours...
Any spell which resembles the above and makes spellcaster better fighters than fighters. - Goodbye Haste, Tenser Transformation...

Haste: Doubles movement and attack rate, area of effect 20 ft radius, ages recepients one year. - Oh no, not aging. Aging only hurts if your playing a game that lasts long enough to go into older age. and tracking physical/mental age is a pain.

Reversable spells are back. Reduce/enlarge, Raise dead/slay living, heal/harm, resurrection/destruction, comprehend/confuse languages, etc. - Eh, more power to the sorcerer, I say!

Ranger, bard, and paladin spell lists do not exist. - Ok. Does that mean holy sword and modify memory don't exist?

Elves gain +1 to hit with the long sword and long bow. - No auto proficiency, or is this in addition to that? What happened to short swords/bows?

Dwarves retain their movement rate in medium and heavy armor. - They don't already in 3.5?

Rogues no longer gain evasion. Rogues cannot sneak attack just by flanking, the target must be unaware of the attack, or unable to defend himself from it, however, rogues do get +4 to hit when flanking. Does this mean fighter subtypes will be better in combat than the thief? Damn straight. As it should be. - Thank you for removing any real reason to PLAY a rogue. I'll go back to my "backstab and hide in the corner for the duration of the fight" method of play that I soooo loved in 2e.

Multiclass fighters cannot gain weapon specialization nor do they gain bonus feats. They do, however, retain their attack rate. - Wow. Fighters are relegated back to their position of "add this to X to make you rock" as opposed to a viable choice for leveling it. No thanks.

Druids gain the plant and animal domains and may spontaneously cast any summon nature’s ally spell. Domain spells cannot be swapped in this manner. - Ok. Summon Swaps are in 3.5.

Rogue: Loses evasion and may not select improved evasion as a special ability. Rogues may tumble in combat. By forfeiting all attacks and making an acrobatic tumble, they can gain a +1 bonus to ac per two levels. There is no roll for this, he just does it. - Ah, so the rogue is there to distract an opponent while the fighter kills it. No thanks.

Barbarian, ranger, and monk have undergone complete overhauls. - Skipped for time considerations.

Monks, paladins, bards, and barbarians may not multiclass. Ranger/druids, ranger/clerics are allowed. Otherwise, only fighter, wizard/sorceror, cleric, thief may multiclass. Multiclassing is done at FIRST level only. Humans may multiclass No dual classing. - Welcome back 2e Multiclassing. So does that mean I level in both classes, or am I the sum of both classes. What do I do about Hp rolls? Can a wizard/cleric get 9th level spells?

Skills: As per 3e, except for multiclass characters. Multiclass characters gain the higher of the classes skill points, and all classes skills are considered class skills AT FIRST LEVEL. As he levels up, this changes. Suppose you have a fighter/thief/mage. He gains 2nd level in thief. He divides his class skills by 3, since this gives him an odd number, he split’s them by getting 4 as a thief, 2 as a mage, and 2 as a fighter. Or however he wants to split them as he levels up, as long as it = 8 per total level. Since he leveled up as a thief, only thief/rogue skills are class skills. He next levels up as a fighter, so we pick 2 skill points to add and may only pick fighter skills. He could use all his skill points in either class if he wishes, so he could spend all 8 on rogue skills or 7 on rogue skill, saving one for when he levels up as a wizard, etc. If he has an int bonus, he still divides by 3, so this same character, with a 14 int will have 10 skill points (8 for rogue, the higher of the three classes +two for int) and can split them however he wishes. - huh? You'd be better off looking at the simple skills rules in Unearthed Arcana.

Hit points – max at first level.
After 9th level, no more hit points are rolled. Exceptions are the ranger, who gets 11 hit dice, and the monk who gains up to 20. Barbarians gain 4 per level, Fighters, bards, and rangers 3, Clerics and rogues 2 and wizards and sorcerors 1 - Oh god, not the hp caps. Tell you what, I'll cap my HD when monsters can't have more than 15 HD, +3 per HD afterwards. Ok?

Of all the things to bring back, these things I highlighted were the ones that either seemed counterproductive or simply confusing. Many are things I like about 3.5 and would want to carry backwards, not remove.
 


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