AD&D First Edition inferior?

[Voneth]

I don't know these games, but I might venture that the boardgame format is too limited.

But if you are trying to snag a new audience, they need something familar looking. Ideally, it would be a "complete" rpg with board game-like "dungeon tiles," figs (hey, remember Space Crusade with the detachable weapons?) and dice, with as few "weird" dice as possible.

Why the pesudo-boardgame/completeist concept, people like the familar and have a comfort level when they game. The start of this thread has some of it's roots in this very phenomenon.

The problem with that for a quality product like some are hoping for, it's going to be over $20. For $20 or less, it's going to be a less than stellar presentation.

 

[RobNJ]

Qick question Rob. Which sentence is the rude (unecessary?) one: first or second?

Neither. Both are true. I cannot comprehend his writing. It makes it impossible to carry on a conversation.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Board games are not what we need. We need a full roleplaying system that is d20 but w/o the non essentials. Look at GURPS lite. You could run a full campaign with nothing else if you were willing to do the work. Expand that into a 96 page booklet that adds more skills and such and you have what I would love to buy from WOTC. Putting out an "intro" game that is a hybrid D&D/Talisman/Heroquest is not what we need. We need a full RPG with fewer rules.

 

[GENEWEIGEL]

So while "financially ruinous" for the company I would like to see future material like:

1) A new SRD that incorporates everything that "came down the pipe" rulewise into an advanced section for those of us that can keep up with it.

2) A "D&D lite" for kids but one that looks like it was designed by a teacher instead of looking like it was written after six hours of Playstation. That is, a classical look and bent that inspired so many of us to get into the game in the first place should be passed on to the next generation. No more Elminster's "Fuzzy Realms" style for the kids.

3) Hardcovers called The Completist's Dungeons and Dragons game that contained frank discussions of the rules and reflections on history of the industry it created. The first rulebook in the series could be something like "Return to the Last Word: What Gary Gygax had planned for AD&D". Then you can have showcases on on various authors and their style of play, etc. Sort of a return to a sensibility of literature rather than a parallel to Monopoly that the 2e years hinted at.

4) A virtual reality Castle Greyhawk where you can find the first appearance of all the "D&D-isms".

5) Polyhedral dice made of antimatter.

6) Transgenically created humanoids, dragons and other "beasties".

7) An advance in dimensional studies so much that we can "encode" one dimension to tap other dimensions with verbal, somatic and material "triggers".

8) A device that not only rules all others but in the darkness binds them.

9) A time machine that can find the real Conan that spoke to Robert E. Howard in his "delusions".

10) A one page D&D hardcover fantasy supplement from an Eastern point of view called DEITY.

But that's just me!

 

[hong]

2) A "D&D lite" for kids but one that looks like it was designed by a teacher instead of looking like it was written after six hours of Playstation.

A D&D lite for kids should most definitely look like it was written with the Playstation Generation in mind.

9) A time machine that can find the real Conan that spoke to Robert E. Howard in his "delusions".

Feh. Everyone knows that Robert A. Heinlein created Conan after an absinthe-induced trip into expanded consciousness, brought on by following the instructions in his own how-to-found-your-own-religion book, _Dianetics_.

This is why you should never make a bet with Harlan Ellison on whether it is in fact possible to found one's own religion.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

So if D&D lite is written for the "playstation generation" wouldn't that make it just like full 3e?

We don't need D&D for dummies, we need D&D for those who don't want a tactical miniature combat system and all the things it entails. We need a D&D that doesn't need half page stat blocks. We need a d&d that doesn't bog down with all the rules. That would be fun to dm & play.

 

[Storm Raven]

We don't need D&D for dummies, we need D&D for those who don't want a tactical miniature combat system and all the things it entails. We need a D&D that doesn't need half page stat blocks. We need a d&d that doesn't bog down with all the rules. That would be fun to dm & play.

Interesting. In my opinion you just described 3e D&D, since you can easily do all of those things you want D&D to do with that rule set.

 

[Theuderic]

Did you take any writing courses, like, ever?

I can only understand what you're trying to say about 10% of the time.

The second question is true. The first question isn't "true". If it is then please explain and I would greatly appreciate learning more.

 

[Theuderic]

Neither. Both are true. I cannot comprehend his writing. It makes it impossible to carry on a conversation.

 

[Psion]

We don't need D&D for dummies, we need D&D for those who don't want a tactical miniature combat system and all the things it entails.

Funny, I seem to be able to run 3e without minis if I feel the need (and frequently do.) All it takes is the DM saying "it'll take you a move equivalent action to flank them" instead of measuring things.

We need a D&D that doesn't need half page stat blocks.

The only statblocks of a half page that I have seen are for high level spellcasting characters; 1e would have required you to write out all those stats as well. The only way to condense it further would be to take out skills and feats. Is that what you want?

We need a d&d that doesn't bog down with all the rules. That would be fun to dm & play.

That sounds like the current edition more than any prior. I don't have to stress over speed factors and other minutia, and most rolls are handled consistently vice having its own separate subsystem that you have to look up. 3e bogs down much less in play than prior version for this reason IME.