add 1/2 level to ability checks? What? Why?

[GeorgeFields]

Dude, I'm not even remotely that important.

Neither am I.

 

[vagabonvoid]

4: the argument that anything heavier than your max load can not be lifted is clearly false by the rules. That is merely the load that one can lift without having any chance of failure at all.

In the rules, it only names The type of material the porticullus would be made out of and ignores the actual weight of it. By your argument, the adamantine porticullus could be small and weigh 50 lbs or gargantuan in size and weigh 10000lbs and still lift it with a DC33 str check...

Nowhere in the rules does it say once can lift heavier than their heavy load (this is why there is the entire paragraph about pushing and dragging). Also, you can fail to lift your heavy load (last sentence in the carrying capacity paragraph).

I'm glad they emphasize in the DMG that to use common sense.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

In the rules, it only names The type of material the porticullus would be made out of and ignores the actual weight of it. By your argument, the adamantine porticullus could be small and weigh 50 lbs or gargantuan in size and weigh 10000lbs and still lift it with a DC33 str check...

Nowhere in the rules does it say once can lift heavier than their heavy load (this is why there is the entire paragraph about pushing and dragging). Also, you can fail to lift your heavy load (last sentence in the carrying capacity paragraph).

I'm glad they emphasize in the DMG that to use common sense.

Well you can thank 3.x for making gamers so dumb that they dont have any left. Seriously, its like everyone has to be told exactly how something works in any given situation. Wasnt that one of the problems of 3.x? Isnt that what they were trying to avoid in 4ed? Isnt that one of the features most people wanted out of 4ed and was glad it had?

 

[isirga eth]

You know, I opened this thread because I have basically the same qualms as the OP. However, maximum load rules kill the portcullis issue, and most of your other responses and suggestions DO solve the issue somehow. I'm in fact content with the idea of simply describing actions in a way that fits my campaign's style.

However, I still don't understand one thing - why did the designers bother with a skill system at ALL? What's the difference between making an untrained insight check and making a wisdom check plus half your level? What difference does a +5 trained bonus from the Paragon tier onward? Why should there be one?

In 4E, everything you can do is just your ability modifier + 1/2 level. Skill checks, ability checks, attacks, EVERYTHING. Some checks get the "skill training" bonus, some others get the weapon proficiency bonus, but it's basically the same mechanic to describe and rule every possible action your character will ever undertake in his whole life. Why then did they bother to separate ability checks/skill checks/etc? Not bashing the designers, just curious about their reasons/thought process.

 

[Otterscrubber]

I remember in high school wrestling when I was a freshman wrestler it didn't take much to hurt me and I was surprised how even the much smaller senior dudes could kick my ass all day long without breaking a sweat. I wondered how they did that. I could not believe how a dude who looked like I could kick him like a soccer ball would just beat me up physically. It didn't make any sense. Yet it happened. And he didn't even have 30 levels of arcane energy flowing through him. At least not that I could tell.

 

[PeterWeller]

Even looking at John Mclaine, at the end of the last movie, was he as good at hacking computers as Theo from Die Hard 1? WHat happened to all the XP he got from getting shot, blown up and saying bad one liners? He doesn't add half his level to his int checks or his computer use skill because it just isn't in his character.

Or he didn't have skill training in hacking.

 

[essenbee]

It seems the 4e answer to any question is just this: "Because." No further elaboration is given.

So stop playing 4e if it hurts your brain so much!

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

This was a big turnoff for me initially, but I kind of worked myself around by considering how "tiers" play into things.

A level 21+ character is an Epic Hero. That means that he's the metaphorical Chuck Norris of the game world. It says "superheroic" right in the PHB. Even if he's a martial character he can perform feats that no mere human could attempt. A plain old iron portcullis is beneath his notice, whatever his class may be. So in other words, if you're going to even consider playing at this level, you've got to be willing to handwave mundane details.

The paragon tier is a bit trickier. I'd consider someone like Legolas or Aragorn from LOTR to be a paragon character: he's got his own schtick, but you'd never be surprised to see him do something badass in any given field.

The basic point to keep in mind here is that every PC class is first and foremost and ADVENTURER class. You don't get to be a level 30 wizard by studying really really hard, because the PHB class "Wizard" is really something like "Adventurer-Wizard." You get there by kicking a metric ton of ass, which means you can probably handle most situations well.

 

[KingCrab]

Does this make sense to anyone else?

Not to me. I feel your pain, Nadaka. Really powerful characters should still be really bad at doing certain things. That's what made characters like Raistlin so appealing. It also makes the game more fun if everyone has certain roles and characters have to step up to perform certain actions for the party.

 

[hong]

However, I still don't understand one thing - why did the designers bother with a skill system at ALL? What's the difference between making an untrained insight check and making a wisdom check plus half your level?

None.

What difference does a +5 trained bonus from the Paragon tier onward?

Possibly quite a bit, seeing as most of the big buff items and spells are gone.