Adding more than 1 alignment on a weapon

[Henry]

Leave it to the Rules forum to posit a weapon that needs a psychiatrist.

 

[Laman Stahros]

So you are saying that you can separate the law/chaos portion of the alignment from the good/evil. Then why can't the Holy weapon special ability or Align Weapon spell just apply one component (good/evil or law/chaos) of alignment without the other component? And in your own game do you always supply the missing component for weapons that are Holy/Unholy/Anarchic/Axiomatic? Do you let Characters know they are using a lawful evil axiomatic battleaxe?

What I understand Hypersmurf to be saying (Hypersmurf- correct me if I'm wrong) is that an Axiomatic battleaxe has an alignment of lawful neutral. If you add Holy to it, it's alignment would change to lawful good.

 

[boolean]

Edit: Now, take that "anarchic, axiomatic, holy, unholy weapon", add magebane (for fun), and of course it's got to be +1, and put that in the first adventure of a new group. There's nothing like giving a level one character a +10 weapon for some real action.

So any 1st level PC who picks it up, that isn't True Neutral, can take 1-2 negative levels and die instantly? Not really my idea of fun.

 

[glass]

So any 1st level PC who picks it up, that isn't True Neutral, can take 1-2 negative levels and die instantly? Not really my idea of fun.

...and rise as a wight!


glass.

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

Leave it to the Rules forum to posit a weapon that needs a psychiatrist.

That's Nothing.

Lots of Intellignet weapons in my world could serve as a shrink PhD Thesis.

There is a Paladin's Greatsword (who, after a nasty incident with a Troll with Sunder & a +5 Greataxe) has found himself re-forged into a Dagger & now has a severe case of "Size Envy" (Refuses to allow its wielder to have ANY weapon larger than him, which is most).

There's the Spear thatvbelieves itself cursed as most of his wielders die in extremely painful & ghastly Fashions. In fact, his only joy in life is detailing how some previous wielder die in a excutiating, messy, and nasty fashion in a situation similar to the one the party is in right now.

At least one Masochistic Dwarven Warhammer that actively likes to be Sundered.

A voyeuristic Dancing Rapier that likes to cut the clothes off attractive females (Elves Prefered, though the exact gender revealed can be a surprise).

The +5 Adamantine, Keen, Vorpal Longsword with Agorophoba, Nyctophobia, and Hemophobia. So it would leave its scabbard to fight non-living creatures in interior, well-lit areas.

And, I had one player create a Shocking Burst Quarterstaff with the Personality of an East German Dominatrix. (Its usefulness dropped after I stopped using Called Shots Rules).

But, hey, Intellignet Items are often left alone for centruies at a time at the bottom of some nameless treasure horde. Woudn't your mental health suffer if you spent 500 years staring at some Great Wyrms Red's Butt every day, all day?

 

[ARandomGod]

So any 1st level PC who picks it up, that isn't True Neutral, can take 1-2 negative levels and die instantly? Not really my idea of fun.

Oh, well, um... Make sure they're third level then?

Heheh. I don't let people go below 1 in that way, an item won't kill, so that didn't come up. It will shock the shock out of you though!

As an alternative to the above suggested ruling, you could just stop anyone who says they'll wield it and ask them their alignment, and if the answer is anything but TN (of course, you'll already know but it's fun to ask), tell them that they sense death should they but touch the weapon. Adds to the mystique. If you feel you need a reason to give them this information, have them all get some sort of temporary prescience blessing from somewhere.

 

[Lamoni]

So you are saying that you can separate the law/chaos portion of the alignment from the good/evil. Then why can't the Holy weapon special ability or Align Weapon spell just apply one component (good/evil or law/chaos) of alignment without the other component? And in your own game do you always supply the missing component for weapons that are Holy/Unholy/Anarchic/Axiomatic? Do you let Characters know they are using a lawful evil axiomatic battleaxe?

I didn't know I was saying this. They are seperate. Law/chaos is different from good/evil, but they both contribute to the alignment. Unless some special circumstances are present, an object is neutral. It is not lawful, chaotic, good, or evil.

Anyway, let's seperate them and pretend that you could have an alignment that is just good with no law/chaos part (not even neutral). You still run into the same problem with a holy unholy sword. Once you put the first enhancement on it, it gains an alignment of good or evil. Then you couldn't place the second enhancement on it without destroying the first. If you could, you would end up with a good evil alignment. If you think that is allowed in the rules, please provide some evidence. And if it is allowed, I want to make a good evil character as my next PC. Could I add neutral to that too? Could I be a chaotic neutral lawful good neutral evil character? Are you sure this wouldn't require a houserule?

Also, the only way someone could carry around a lawful evil sword is if it had both the axiomatic and unholy enhancements, or through the use of a spell. Making a normal sword into an unholy sword only changes the good/evil portion of the alignment so it would retain its law/chaos part. Since it is a normal sword that would make it neutral evil. If it was already an axiomatic sword, that would change it from a lawful neutral sword into a lawful evil sword. It all seems pretty simple to me.

 

[Abraxas]

What I understand Hypersmurf to be saying (Hypersmurf- correct me if I'm wrong) is that an Axiomatic battleaxe has an alignment of lawful neutral. If you add Holy to it, it's alignment would change to lawful good.

Thats what I thought he was saying also - I was just asking why you can separate the neutral part from the lawful part to change its alignment from LN to LG.

I didn't know I was saying this.

You weren't
The text you quoted was a response to Hypersmurf.

Anyway, let's seperate them and pretend that you could have an alignment that is just good with no law/chaos part (not even neutral).

Don't have to pretend.

You still run into the same problem with a holy unholy sword. Once you put the first enhancement on it, it gains an alignment of good or evil. Then you couldn't place the second enhancement on it without destroying the first. If you could, you would end up with a good evil alignment. If you think that is allowed in the rules, please provide some evidence. And if it is allowed, I want to make a good evil character as my next PC. Could I add neutral to that too? Could I be a chaotic neutral lawful good neutral evil character? Are you sure this wouldn't require a houserule?

No, you don't run into a problem in exactly the same way you don't run into a problem placing flaming and frost properties on the same weapon. Please provide some evidence that the you can't place Holy and Unholy properties on a weapon. Saying it can't be good if its evil is exactly the same as saying it can't be hot if its cold.

Our difference comes from our differing inerpretation on what exactly the holy/unholy/anarchic/axiomatic abilities do to a weapon.

In your interpretation they place an alignment (NG/NE/CN/LN - depending on the property) and then you allow each component of that alignment to be treated separately for the purpose of adding another ability as long as it affects a different alignment axis.

In my interpretation the special abilities in question just make the weapon good/evil/lawful/chaotic (with no other component) and just like other special abilities you can mix and match as you like.

Its perfectly fine and good for you to decide that any spell/special ability that is good/evil/lawful/chaotic has an unwritten neutral before or after but it isn't stated so in the rules anywhere that I've seen. Creatures and intelligent items have a full blown alignment (one of the nine), as far as I can see the spells and special abilities just have a component, and in item creation - well its magic and magic can do some mighty strange things.

No houserules required on either side - just DM adjucation.

Also, the only way someone could carry around a lawful evil sword is if it had both the axiomatic and unholy enhancements, or through the use of a spell. Making a normal sword into an unholy sword only changes the good/evil portion of the alignment so it would retain its law/chaos part. Since it is a normal sword that would make it neutral evil. If it was already an axiomatic sword, that would change it from a lawful neutral sword into a lawful evil sword. It all seems pretty simple to me.

Again I was responding to Hypersmurf. Something he said in a previous post led me to believe that he may be of the opinion that a holy weapon could (and may) have any good alignment and not just NG when created with only the Holy special ability.

It all seems pretty obvious to me.
Good thing we both find it so easy to comprehend

 

[blargney the second]

Am I the only one here thinking of the Equalizer from Baldur's Gate II?

 

[fnork de sporg]

Weapons don't have an alignment, they are aligned. That means that, for instance, they would overcome a DR of that alignment. It is a mechanical effect that is quite different that actually have an alignment. It just means that the "energy" of that alignment, or perhaps more accurately energy from that particular area of the outer planes, is being used.

And I see no reason why magic could not be used to have both these energies swirling around an axe blade.