Adjucating Summon Spells

[Infiniti2000]

I wouldn't let a Bison grapple.

Would you let something grapple a bison, though? Like, say, an ogre?

If so, what options does the Bison have once successfully grappled? Is the bison actually considered grappling or does the fact that it can't grapple means that it is never considered grappling?

 

[Arnwyn]

Would you let something grapple a bison, though? Like, say, an ogre?

If so, what options does the Bison have once successfully grappled? Is the bison actually considered grappling or does the fact that it can't grapple means that it is never considered grappling?

Are you seriously asking this question?

I think you know full well what he meant (especially considering your previous post, above).

 

[Mr Jack]

I use the bison to appraise, gather information, and use rope too. You think I shouldn't?

Well, you need to be 10th level to have it last long enough to appraise, and then you'd need a couple more rounds if it's going to do something with the information - so, say, 12th level. Gather Information however takes d4+1 hours so that's right out.

 

[brendan candries]

Would you let something grapple a bison, though? Like, say, an ogre?

If so, what options does the Bison have once successfully grappled? Is the bison actually considered grappling or does the fact that it can't grapple means that it is never considered grappling?

But grapple isn't a bison's typical way to attack. So it would rather use it's grapple check to escape the grapple rather than doing damage or, even less likely, pin it's opponent.

Asking a bison to actually start a grapple, doing damage during the grapple or pin it's opponent would at least require a handle animal check to push the animal to do so.

Anyway: GM's call.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Note: celestial bison have a non-animal intelligence so it would be a diplomacy check. Oh, wait, as a summoned creature it obeys its summoner to the limit of its ability to do so.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Are you seriously asking this question?

I think you know full well what he meant (especially considering your previous post, above).

Of course I am. There was no smiley in that.

The problem I have with not letting the bison grapple is that it unnecessarily and illogically distinguishes between starting a grapple and remaining in a grapple. You can't (logically) not let a bison grapple and yet require it to remain grappling.

So, I'd like to hear if my view on it is flawed. Note, from the definition of grappling: "For creatures, grappling can also mean trapping opponents in any number of ways (in a toothy maw, under a huge paw, and so on)." Substitute hoof for paw.

Asking a bison to actually start a grapple, doing damage during the grapple or pin it's opponent would at least require a handle animal check to push the animal to do so.

It's a celestial bison. It is definitely not an animal. It may, in fact, be as smart as the party barbarian.

 

[Nail]

It's a celestial bison. It is definitely not an animal. It may, in fact, be as smart as the party barbarian.

....and almost certainly better looking.

I've been playing a summoner-specialist cleric for some time. (Tonight is probably the last meeting of the campaign! Sigh.) Grappling opponents with the summoned creature is almost always the best tactic out there...at least until 12th level or so. After that, many opponents have grapple checks that are high enough to thwart the tactic.

....so, if you thought the celestial bison was bad, just watch out for the celestial brown bear!