Adjudicating Torture

[bret]

I know that's what the abstract solution is for. But it's hard to give up on the fun of describing to the PC in loving detail exactly what happens to his PC, until he blabs everything just to make you stop describing it DMs deserve some fun too!

I thought it was supposed to be the character that was being tortured. This sounds more like emotional torture of the player.

Do you really want to be playing mind games with your players like that?

 

[Lela]

I thought it was supposed to be the character that was being tortured. This sounds more like emotional torture of the player.

Do you really want to be playing mind games with your players like that?

I thought that was what DMing is all about.

Just one more reason why I would ask the player.

 

[shilsen]

You betcha!

I thought it was supposed to be the character that was being tortured. This sounds more like emotional torture of the player.

Do you really want to be playing mind games with your players like that?

Mind games with the players? In a word: Yes!

 

[hong]

I thought it was supposed to be the character that was being tortured. This sounds more like emotional torture of the player.

Do you really want to be playing mind games with your players like that?

Hey, what's the point of being an evil DM if you can't be evil once in a while?

 

[Epametheus]

Magically, if truth detection is available, then the available clerics might as well go medieval on the prisoner -- use multiple Bestow Curses to impose a -4 on all checks, -6 to Str, Dex, Wis, and Cha, and something really aggravating, like "breathing hurts."

A character with multiple curses slapped on him or her isn't going to be of much help once rescued...

As for the character breaking, that's simple -- discuss it with the player. Unless your player is a putz, (s)he should be reasonable enough to give a general time frame for his/her character cracking.

Seriously, all Profession (Torturer) really does is help determine how much gold per week someone can make at that job... Doing more beyond that would pretty much involve making it a seperate skill (and figuring out which classes can take it), and balancing it. Allowing it to set a Will save with a skill check is actually really strong -- skills advance much faster than saves...

 

[bret]

Re: You betcha!

Mind games with the players? In a word: Yes!

I know most of the people here are joking, but still I think that some care needs to be taken in how the subject is handled in the game.

I have been in a game where (after having his character tortured), one of the players decided that it proved just what a sick, twisted person the GM was. There were problems between these two before this, but it was a catalyst towards ending that relationship. To my knowledge, the two people involved still will not have anything to do with each other.

I'm not sure how the GM was roleplaying the session. We escaped before my character was to be tortured. I do know that he did manage to shake up one of the other players, although that guy was alright with it.

The point is, you really should consider how a player might feel about the subject.

Some people don't think that such things are fun, and if it isn't fun for them then it probably should not be part of the game. Each person has their own level of comfort with various topics and you shouldn't try to exceed those. It is supposed to be fun for both the GM and players.

 

[Nik_the_Pig]

Sorry, this may be way off base as I don't have the books with me at work and I haven't used the rules I'm about to suggest much BUT...

Fatigue?? Isn't there some rules for lack of sleep/running to long/ environmental conditions/ not eating/etc. Some of the oldest and most effective forms of torture involve sleep deprevation, starvation, environmental extremes (anyone remember Tank Girl ) and the like. Surely those rules could be used to give good modifiers for the effects of torture.

 

[shilsen]

Re: Re: You betcha!

I know most of the people here are joking, but still I think that some care needs to be taken in how the subject is handled in the game.

I have been in a game where (after having his character tortured), one of the players decided that it proved just what a sick, twisted person the GM was. There were problems between these two before this, but it was a catalyst towards ending that relationship. To my knowledge, the two people involved still will not have anything to do with each other.

I'm not sure how the GM was roleplaying the session. We escaped before my character was to be tortured. I do know that he did manage to shake up one of the other players, although that guy was alright with it.

The point is, you really should consider how a player might feel about the subject.

Some people don't think that such things are fun, and if it isn't fun for them then it probably should not be part of the game. Each person has their own level of comfort with various topics and you shouldn't try to exceed those. It is supposed to be fun for both the GM and players.

I was only partially joking, but I agree completely. Whether I do play mind games with my players or not would depend on the specific situation and the players concerned. My current group consists of mature individuals who wouldn't have a problem with this, and even so, I'd discuss it with them beforehand, before deciding how to implement the subject of torture. With a group of my friends back in India (I'm in the US now), I wouldn't even have to discuss it, since I know they'd love it (we're all sick and twisted ). And with some other groups, there's no way I'd introduce the subject in this way. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Tzarevitch]

I'd assume the bad guys are going to torture him more for the sport than to gather information. As others have already pointed out, torture is spectacularly ineffective as an information gathering too. Torture victims tend to tell whatever they think the torturer wants to hear (with the object of lessening their torment.)

In AD&D frankly magic is far better at info gathering (and psionics is even better). One psion with the Psychic Inqisitor feat, Detect Thoughts and whatever that mind probe power is now being called, and the bad guys will know everything. Lace the PC with poison that damages Wisdom and the PC will fail Will saves (note Psychic Inquisitor has no save). A skilled person with the Empathy power can probably also derve as a lie detector (I'd require Gather Information skill checks DC 20 to "read" the truth in the PCs emotion.)

In situations like this I usually just explain to the PC that the bad guys WILL get the information and not go into detail about the extraction method unless the PC have reason to know or can reasonably resist or the other PCs can rescue him in time.

As DM, I have no interest in describing information extraction procedures and I don't think the PCs have any interest in hearing them either.

Tzarevitch

 

[Henry]

In my opinion the damage being done should be temporary constitution damage rather than hit point damage. After all, you are torturing them, not fighting them in combat. So, say, for every 2 points of CON damage done, they get a +1 bonus to the check? Making it Fortitude saves makes it even rougher when the CON damage starts wearing away at them.
This makes it quick and egalitarian. A peasant dies from horrible torture techniques only a little quicker than a 20th level fighter, but the 20th level fighter will be far less likely to "break."

(P.S. I technically feel that Falling damage should be done the same way, doing CON damage instead of HIt points of damage. After all, if HP is resiliance, luck, combat prowess, then what has falling damage got to do with it?)