Adjusting Irontooth encounter to be harder...

[Jack99]

Okay, so the Irontooth encounter in KotS is a 1250 xp encounter, for a 5-man level 1 group. In other words, that's a level 6 (n+5) encounter.

Problem is, my group is level 2, and has 7 players. So if the Irontooth encounter is still supposed to be n+5, we are looking at a level 7 encounter, that's 1500 xp. But since I have 7 players, I have to add 2 times 300 (a level 7 monster) for a whooping 2100 xp.

If that is right, it does sound like an awful lot. I mean, for 2100 xp, I could throw 11 minions, 10 skirmishers, 3 Dragonshields, 1 Wyrmpriest and Irontooth at them.

Where did I go wrong? Or is it really supposed to be that hard?

 

[IanB]

The Irontooth encounter is complicated. For a group that size and level I would think about maybe just 'guaranteeing' that one of the initial kobolds gets away to warn the later waves of combatants early, rather than leveling it up. The encounter is pretty well overpowering for a normal group if they have to fight it all at once, so it might still be a pretty nasty challenge if those guys all come marching out of the waterfall on round 3.

 

[fnwc]

This encounter is already almost a TPK under normal circumstances. When I ran it, I had to give some hints to my players regarding Irontooth's double attack (that he couldn't do it after moving) as well as have the last Dragonshield and Wyrmpriest (who were both unhurt) run away when Irontooth fell after the last remaining party member dropped him.

Even so, two died before they could be stabilized.

With 7 2nd level characters, it might be a bit more balanced.

 

[webrunner]

Replace some of the kobolds with some of the Creature Incarnations ones (a Wild Mage, for instance, is level 5)

 

[BradfordFerguson]

Some of the encounters for the adventure are just way too hard, so I would edit them.

the encounter was almost a TPK for 5 1st-level characters, so I wouldn't be ADDING monsters. The encounter was way too tough for a 1st level group. It was basically a double encounter!

N+5 is stupid, unless your group of players just loves to get beat down, I would limit anything you do to N+3 and scale it for 6 characters.

IN ADDITION. Don't make the first 3 encounters an ambush situation. "Welcome to 4th Edition, now you're going to be 'jumped in' by being excessively ambushed by n+2 encounters!"

 

[keterys]

While I'd consider increasing the xp of the encounter to keep it tough, I'd consider adding from 1250 to 1750, not to 2100.

I'd also pull in a couple creature creations and/or traps. To be honest, I plan to separate it into two encounters with traps in between (so the second group hunkers down behind the traps, and some of the first group can potentially run there) and swap out a bunch of different kobold types, myself.

 

[Jack99]

Thanks for the help.

So far I had eyeballed the encounter to be upgraded to a 1700 xp encounter made of 11*Kobold Minions (275), 4*Kobold Skirmisher (400 xp), 3*Kobold Dragonshield (375 xp), Kobold War Priest (200 xp) Kobold Wyrmpriest (150 xp), Irontooth (300 xp).

I am testing the piker and the vermin-handler in the fight outside, which I made a xp 875 fight, to fit the party level and numbers (standard basically).

I opted out of using traps, but it was a great suggestion.

 

[Obryn]

I'm running this for 7 players, and I don't know that I'll be upgrading it. They're still learning how their characters' powers interact, so I kind of expect a TPW anyways. (I plan on using unconsciousness-blows instead of death-blows, since I think that's in line with the slavery sub-plot.)

-O

 

[keterys]

Good call, that - I had planned on going a bit more into the slavery thing with my kobolds, as well. (After reading the Dungeon excerpt)

 

[CAFRedblade]

I just updated a similar thread on the Irontooth encounter here:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?p=4362673

Our Human melee Hunter went down, and the party retreated, since I only had the hunter make one death save(which he made) I ruled he was captured by the remaining Kobolds.

They will ship him off to the Hobgoblins, who have been hired by the Gnome to aid him in recovering the Mirror he lost when the PC's attacked the Burial site.

He plans to trade their companion for the Mirror...

... I hope they comply ...