Spoilers Agatha All Along discussion

[Thomas Shey]

But if those expectations had been raised by the previous movies, and the current movies were of comparable quality, why would they not meet those expectations? I don't follow your logic there.

People don't compare movies in a series to the mediocre or bad ones; they compare them to the best. As such, the bar has been raised over time.

Put another way, since Endgame, everything gets compared in many people's minds to Endgame, to their harm.

 

[RangerWickett]

I really dug the show.

I'm a fan of trope-y serials that have a justification for being trope-y. I like witches just aesthetically. And I really adored the backstory to the theme song.

 

[Maxperson]

The only loose end for me....why was Rio trying to kill Agatha? I assume Agatha has lived past her time, but it couldn't have just been her loss of power, otherwise Rio would never have agreed to let her get it back, and when she did Rio still kicked her butt. My thought being....perhaps it was the Darkhold itself keeping Rio away from Agatha, and that was the loss that brought Rio back into the picture, but its never made clear.

I got the impression that the reason was spurned love. When Agatha realized her baby was going to be born dead, she threatened to hate Death who gave a very hurt look. Then Death eventually did take her son and Agatha isn't very forgiving.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

In the context of the underlying dramatic problem, none of that mattered. Nothing mattered in this story. None of those characters were important. Agatha All Along exists to set up another story. There's no dramatic weight to it. No stakes.

Stories don't matter because they lead to another story. They matter because they have something to say. What did Agatha All Along have to say? What meaningful choices did characters make?

The big, meaningful choice that it seemed like Agatha was making was to finally put someone ahead of herself. But no, she's back a few minutes later, and arguably better than ever.

How so? Stories only matter if they have sequels? I mean, Hamlet 2 is pretty hilarious, but the original doesn't need it. Moon Knight doesn't matter because it was designed to be part of another story and then dropped (see The Eternals). A good story has something to say on its own.

Okay, so maybe in the future it will matter. If I also watch that show.

This is clearly a problem with the MCU. It's created the impression that individual stories don't matter. Who care who lives and who dies? The only thing that I care about is how it sets up the next overblown movie.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

My personal read was that the coven in the woods (when Nicholas was a baby) were definitely malicious, Agatha recognized that, and deliberately walked into the ambush (the ring of stones glowing was probably some sort of entrapment spell).

Nick stealing the bell in the village and running right towards Agatha was almost certainly premeditated to incite the coven to attack Agatha.

My reading is that Agatha's absorption power ONLY work if the other witch initiates the violence, which is why she acts as she does. It would be much easier for her if she could simply attack another witch and have them use their powers against her in self-defense. The fact that she never does this suggests, to me, that her power has intrinsic restrictions.

The thing is (and the show doesn't really make this clear) this is some 50 odd years after Agatha has murdered her mother and her coven. And who knows why they were trying to execute her? And who knows how many other witches she has killed in the years before Nick was born? Agatha already appears to be a conscienceless serial killer, so killing to keep her child alive would be just the natural thing to do. It wasn't until the child started to develop the conscience Agatha lacked that there was a problem.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

People don't compare movies in a series to the mediocre or bad ones; they compare them to the best. As such, the bar has been raised over time.

Put another way, since Endgame, everything gets compared in many people's minds to Endgame, to their harm.

Well, my expectations for marvel stuff certainly have been lowered by a lot of the more recent films being pretty bad. Not that I think Endgame or the whole Infinity saga was good. Unlike apparently most people, I think it was an overwrought nonsensical mess, and I think Agatha All Along compares very well against any previous MCU thing. Perhaps some of the standalone Ironman movies and Wandavision were similarly enjoyable to me.

 

[Maxperson]

I always wonder why wizards (Harry Potter) and witches don't use guns....

Use muggle stuff!? Who do you think I am, a Weasley?

 

[Zaukrie]

Use muggle stuff!? Who do you think I am, a Weasley?

If I'm fighting to save all the world from a great evil, yes.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Well, my expectations for marvel stuff certainly have been lowered by a lot of the more recent films being pretty bad. Not that I think Endgame or the whole Infinity saga was good. Unlike apparently most people, I think it was an overwrought nonsensical mess, and I think Agatha All Along compares very well against any previous MCU thing. Perhaps some of the standalone Ironman movies and Wandavision were similarly enjoyable to me.

However, I'd have to suggest that your reaction to Endgame is--not typical. And objections to more recent movies have most frequently been framed in a fashion to support that.

 

[Staffan]

However, I'd have to suggest that your reaction to Endgame is--not typical. And objections to more recent movies have most frequently been framed in a fashion to support that.

Personally, I think it's more Awesome than actually Good. It feels a lot like a superhero movie highlights reel, with lots of individual scenes that make you go "Bleep yeah!", but the plot itself is barely there.