Spoilers Agatha All Along discussion

[Zaukrie]

That was a great show. Really liked it a lot.

 

[trappedslider]

 

[MarkB]

It's fitting that the clocks went back last weekend, because that second-to-last episode was definitely Green Witch mean time.

 

[Staffan]

I agree, actually having characters die and stay dead (mostly) is quite refreshing for the MCU and I particularly liked the mythic turn of Agatha's physical form becoming a garden. Equally I did like the tidbit that Green magic is tied to life cycle of both growth and decay, that loops in Loki as god of story/time too, which is neat (and of course theres that this iteration of Death is named 'River of Life'.)

Very Golgari of them.

It was a nice ending and keeps Agatha villainous and Billy ready for his superhero turn

Hmm. I'm seeing a parallel here. Both Wandavision and Agatha All Along was about a reality warper drawing people into their own fantasy world, eventually realizing that that's what they were doing and regretting it, trying a half-hearted fix, and then leaving with a potentially corrupting mentor (the Darkhold in one instance, Agatha in the other).

My own read is that Agatha's first coven kill (the one you see in Wandavision and briefly at the very start of this show was in self-defense, the next several were a trick to keep Nicolas alive and healthy (note he didn't die until after the one he made her skip), and then after that it was a big chunk of sunk cost fallacy and not-give-a-damn.

Note that there was a significant chunk of time in between the two events. The Salem event in Wandavision was in 1693, while Nicholas's birth was in 1750.

It was also a bit odd that when she was with Nicholas, Agatha seemed to be able to use her power drain offensively. I mean, there's no indication that any of the covens attacked her and yet she gobbled them all up. It's not until after Nicholas's death that we again see her luring witches into attacking her and draining them that way.

 

[MarkB]

Very Golgari of them.

Hmm. I'm seeing a parallel here. Both Wandavision and Agatha All Along was about a reality warper drawing people into their own fantasy world, eventually realizing that that's what they were doing and regretting it, trying a half-hearted fix, and then leaving with a potentially corrupting mentor (the Darkhold in one instance, Agatha in the other).

Except that in Wanda's case she was at least somewhat aware of what she was doing from the start or close to it, while Billy didn't know about it until it was all over.

Note that there was a significant chunk of time in between the two events. The Salem event in Wandavision was in 1693, while Nicholas's birth was in 1750.

It was also a bit odd that when she was with Nicholas, Agatha seemed to be able to use her power drain offensively. I mean, there's no indication that any of the covens attacked her and yet she gobbled them all up. It's not until after Nicholas's death that we again see her luring witches into attacking her and draining them that way.

Those conflicts happened basically offscreen, so we don't know exactly what went down. She could have opened up with regular offensive magic, then drained them when they counterattacked.

 

[Staffan]

Except that in Wanda's case she was at least somewhat aware of what she was doing from the start or close to it, while Billy didn't know about it until it was all over.

My impression in Wandavision was that Wanda is essentially disassociating into two Wandas: Wanda being torn apart by grief, who created the hex and were pulling the strings, and Wanda the sitcom character who was mostly concerned about sitcom mom things. I got the feeling that sitcom-Wanda was semi-independent and grief-Wanda was mostly along as a viewer for most of it, albeit with the ability to take over at any time when needed – sort of like a magical Hulk. It wasn't until near the end when Agatha really went in for the psychological manipulation and looking through her history that she manages to reintegrate herself, and realized how she was torturing the people of Westview – at which point her heroic nature reasserted itself and she tried (poorly) to fix things.

It's not exactly the same as Billy's situation, but there are similarities.

Those conflicts happened basically offscreen, so we don't know exactly what went down. She could have opened up with regular offensive magic, then drained them when they counterattacked.

Sure, we don't see exactly what happens. We do see the camera turn away (and in one case, everyone walking behind a wall) and we hear the sound of power-drain, as well as Agatha cackling and other witches screaming in pain. But we don't hear any initiation of the fight from the other witches. In the initial scene with new-born Nicholas, there isn't even a trace of hostility, just her being welcomed in camp and then poof, dead witches. And once she starts doing the Witches' Road con, we do see her taunting her "covens" into attacking her, just like back in Salem.

I mean, it's not conclusive, but it's odd that every situation in between Nicholas's birth and death is handled the same, while every situation before and after is handled a different way.

(It's also odd that in every situation where she's facing multiple witches, they all blast her simultaneously instead of having one go first and having someone notice that this isn't going according to plan, or having some try physical fighting or something. But that could just be narrative convenience.)

 

[Zaukrie]

My impression in Wandavision was that Wanda is essentially disassociating into two Wandas: Wanda being torn apart by grief, who created the hex and were pulling the strings, and Wanda the sitcom character who was mostly concerned about sitcom mom things. I got the feeling that sitcom-Wanda was semi-independent and grief-Wanda was mostly along as a viewer for most of it, albeit with the ability to take over at any time when needed – sort of like a magical Hulk. It wasn't until near the end when Agatha really went in for the psychological manipulation and looking through her history that she manages to reintegrate herself, and realized how she was torturing the people of Westview – at which point her heroic nature reasserted itself and she tried (poorly) to fix things.

It's not exactly the same as Billy's situation, but there are similarities.


Sure, we don't see exactly what happens. We do see the camera turn away (and in one case, everyone walking behind a wall) and we hear the sound of power-drain, as well as Agatha cackling and other witches screaming in pain. But we don't hear any initiation of the fight from the other witches. In the initial scene with new-born Nicholas, there isn't even a trace of hostility, just her being welcomed in camp and then poof, dead witches. And once she starts doing the Witches' Road con, we do see her taunting her "covens" into attacking her, just like back in Salem.

I mean, it's not conclusive, but it's odd that every situation in between Nicholas's birth and death is handled the same, while every situation before and after is handled a different way.

(It's also odd that in every situation where she's facing multiple witches, they all blast her simultaneously instead of having one go first and having someone notice that this isn't going according to plan, or having some try physical fighting or something. But that could just be narrative convenience.)

I always wonder why wizards (Harry Potter) and witches don't use guns....

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I just finished binging this. I watched it over two days and hadn't seen any major spoilers.

What a trip! I loved this! Good cast, excellent vibes, a weird and surreal plot with a lot of cool twists, that nevertheless came together nicely in the end. I think this is my favourite MCU thing. 8.5/10, would witch again.

 

[Zaukrie]

I just finished binging this. I watched it over two days and hadn't seen any major spoilers.

What a trip! I loved this! Good cast, excellent vibes, a weird and surreal plot with a lot of cool twists, that nevertheless came together nicely in the end. I think this is my favourite MCU thing. 8.5/10, would witch again.

crazy typo or your creativity at the end of your post?

 

[Staffan]

I always wonder why wizards (Harry Potter) and witches don't use guns....

Harry Dresden says hi.

But looking at it more seriously, it's probably because guns tend to be obvious weapons in the eyes of mundanes, and because many of the things they fight laugh off bullets.

In Harry's case, it's because killing a mortal with magic is a big no-no. There's some metaphysics about magic requiring active will, so in order to kill someone with magic you need to sincerely believe that this is a person that needs to die, and that you are the one who needs to do it. That sort of thing stains your soul, and makes you more likely to do it again, until you become the kind of person who kills people at the drop of a hat. As a consequence, "no killing" is one of the seven Laws of Magic enforced by the White Council, and if they catch you doing it they'll send Wardens after you to put you down (using swords, because Wardens don't get an exception. Except the Blackstaff.).