Agile Shield Fighter and Two Weapon Fighting

[Legildur]

Did I mention that I don't like shields?

No. You mentioned that you don't like TWF with shields

 

[Darklone]

No. You mentioned that you don't like TWF with shields

My fault. Alas, who's going to a brawl with a door?

Now... most here agree that Agile Shield Def and TWF with shield bash don't stack. That's good in my eyes...

I guess Imp Buckler Def was meant to repair the weak TWD feat line... they thought, he let's give these TWF dudes only one feat to boost their AC...

 

[jasin]

If you just play it like TWF gives no benifit then then you are forcing folks to take a pointless feat TWF if they want to shield bash more than once a turn effectively killing the Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Greater TWF tree, for someone that wants to bash away with his shield.

Or, they could just take TWF and not take Agile Shield Fighter.

TWF is for Dex 19 whirlwind o' death ninja types.

Agile Shield Fighters is for Dex 8 paladins who just want to smack someone in the face with a shield. It doesn't require as much finesse (luckily, since the paladin hardly has any) but it doesn't have as much room for improvement as the regular TWF path.

If you want to double your attacks, you take TWF (and beyond). If you want to tank out in full plate and heavy shield, dump your Dex, but still get that one extra attack with the shield, you take ASF. Both feats have their use, even without stacking them.

It being the Rules Forum I thought there might be some folks here that might have a more elegant solution than just sticking your head in the sand and pretending there isn't a problem.

How about adding a line to ASF that says "You cannot simultaneously benefit from Agile Shield Fighter and Two-Weapon Fighting." Elegant enough?

It amazes me that people read a Rules Forum when they have no interest in discussing rules.

Oh, I do have an interest in discussing rules, but if the intent behind the rules is obvious, and going by the letter rather than the intent causes problems, I think the solution of going by the intent is so trivial as to be uninteresting.

 

[Ryngard]

Another thing to consider is that they will be a one-trick pony if they take ASF and TWF trees. So what if they can get a bunch of attacks if their DM uses tactics it'll be hard for them to just sit there and get a full attack action every round. Higher level monsters are smart and know that sometimes they have to run around and force those TWFs to only gain one attack/round.

 

[Diomeneus]

... hehe... and I just wrote up what a spartan should be like in D&D .... needless to say his shield bashing skills were legendary!

this... is .... SPARTA!!!

 

[Deset Gled]

But that isn't it. If you read that feat, and then read Two Weapon Fighting.

Can someone post the actual text of the ASF feat for reference?

 

[Twowolves]

Er?

An enhancement bonus on a shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but the shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.

A +1 shield (1160gp, say) gets no bonus to attack or damage, but its shield bonus is improved. But a shield which is a +1 magic weapon (2310gp) might have its normal shield bonus, but it gets a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls.

At the extreme end, you might have a +5 Heavy Fortification shield which is a +5 Flaming Burst Shocking Burst Ghost Touch weapon (300460gp).

Note that shield spikes aren't required to make a shield into a weapon, and if you add spikes to a shield, you get a spiked shield; you don't make +1 Flaming spikes on a shield, you make a +1 Flaming spiked shield. It's the shield or the spiked shield which is made into a magic weapon, not the spikes.

-Hyp.

That's why I said "easily" in my post. I know you can enchant a shield to be a weapon separately from it's defensive properties, but now you are spending money/resources on both weapon and shield functions, as opposed to just weapon functions when compared to the traditional TWF-focused guy.

And if I read my new MIC correctly, there is now a hard cap for non-epic magic weapon/armor/shield price of 200,000gp.

 

[James McMurray]

This requires more feats to do less damage in exchange for a higher AC. It's nice, but not broken.

 

[Bagpuss]

Actually shields do more damage.

A +1 Spiked Heavy Shield of Bashing has a base damage of 2d6+1 before strength. Combine that with a EWP (Bastard sword) I think you'd out damage most folks. Especially if you make the shield your primary weapon.

 

[James McMurray]

Really? My SRD says a medium heavy shield of bashing does 1d8. You've enchanted the shield with bashing, not the spikes. Spikes are enchanted as weapons and so cannot have the bashing quality. If you hit with the spikes you're back to doing 1d6.