D&D 4E Alignment, 4e, you, and your paladins.

[drjones]

I always thought of myself as CG, but maybe I am just a jerk?

I love that they are tieing things less rigidly to the alignment system. The old system was very 'designed by nerds' it made concrete sense like a math problem. Real life and human morality is a lot more complex and that complexity is the focus of a lot of great stories.

So I think keeping the old names around is fine but I hope they do not tie any rules to them.

 

[Seule]

I have never liked the concept of alignments affecting the game mechanically-wise. But then a barbarian/monk doesn't make much sense...

There problem there is that Barbarian isn't a class, it's a culture. None of the other classes in the game are a specific culture (although some are tied to one, like samurai or ninja).
If you want to make a classic barbarian, go with ranger. If you want to make Conan, go with... fighter, rogue, ranger, or some combination. The 'I get angry in battle' is a roleplay schtick, not a class feature.
That said, someone from a barbarian culture becoming a monk works fine if you define monk as unarmed warrior and disregard the rest of the fluff. Why being good at unarmed fighting gives you all kinds of quasi-mystical abilities is beyond me.

Edit: I voted to free Tibet because none of the other options fit, because I'll have to see the full implementation of the new system to see what I think of it.

--Penn

 

[Kwalish Kid]

[wot? ToreadorVampire actually posting on ENWorld?!]

In short, I think alignment as-is is overused. Here's what I would like (in my ideal game system):

<actual text snipped>

What you wrote does not seem to relate to the Path of Humanity or any other Path. Should you perhaps change your screen name?

 

[WheresMyD20]

I like the simplicity of Good - Unaligned - Evil. I don't like Lawful Good = very good and Chaotic Evil = very evil. If we need degrees of good & evil, why not use something like Saintly - Good - Unaligned - Evil - Diabolical?

 

[Imban]

I like the old alignment grid, but personally would be fine with a slight modification. Namely, I'd add "unaligned", which would become the default alignment for more or less everyone. Alignments themselves would become more extreme, and involve either innately being born into that alignment, for some magical beings, or a magical ritual that dedicates you to the alignment you match up with, for people.

In this system, Good people are saintly, and wish to use their strength to help others however possible. They willingly save kittens from trees, villages from bandits, and starving pickpockets from a life of crime. The end mission for "Team Good" is to make the world the best place it can possibly be. The archetypical "knight in shining armor" is Good.

Lawful people are regimented and orderly, and want the entire world to be the same way. Dissent, disorder, people living outside the bounds of society, and confusion are anathema to them. The end mission for "Team Law" is to bring the entire world under strict, totalitarian rulership. The Borg are Lawful.

Chaotic people are free spirits, who cannot abide the yoke of civilization, the subjugation of the strong to serve the weak, and the century-spanning and immutable hierarchies that define many societies. They much prefer self-reliance and respect what a strong person can get for himself. The end mission for "Team Chaos" is to dissolve civilization, bringing the entire world into anarchy or tribalism. The archetypical orcish barbarian is Chaotic.

Evil people are real jerks, who use their power to actively harm others whenever feasible. If they do not believe it will bring swift retribution, they will lie, cheat, steal, plunder, and murder to get ahead, or just for the sake of hurting other people. The end mission for "Team Evil" is to make the world a really rotten place, where everyone suffers all the time. Or is dead. The archetypical "lord of darkness" is Evil.

Neutral people are weirdos and Rilmani, who for some reason believe very strongly in opposing all of these forces. While some opposition to Law and Chaos and strong opposition to Evil is natural for most Unaligned people, trying to intentionally bring some sort of weird balance to the universe isn't. "Team Neutral" doesn't really have an end mission, they just want to keep all the aligned forces in balance eternally. As such, the Neutral alignment is the rarest of all of them, usually only found in rare groups of Druids, eccentrics like Mordenkainen, and strange magical creatures like Rilmani and Concordant Killers.

The "double" alignments also exist - Lawful Good people basically strive for the ideal of the benevolent philosopher-king, Lawful Evil people want to construct an oppressive and strictly regimented society, Chaotic Good people want to create an anarchist utopia, and Chaotic Evil people just want the world to descend into rampant murder and destruction.

Under this system, I'd do away with most alignment restrictions, except when it's exceedingly obvious one should be required. Alignment, as an overt magical force, would definitely have mechanical meaning to it, but spells like Detect Evil and Know Alignment would likely be removed. (You could still find someone's alignment by using Holy Word on them, say, but that's a bit less polite.) And finally, the answer of whether it's acceptable to smite an Evil person for being Evil would be answered - generally yes, because Evil people are blatantly and supernaturally devoted to doing bad things. It's hard to spin that as compatible with innocence.

 

[Midnight Dawns]

I like the old alignment grid, but personally would be fine with a slight modification. Namely, I'd add "unaligned", which would become the default alignment for more or less everyone. Alignments themselves would become more extreme, and involve either innately being born into that alignment, for some magical beings, or a magical ritual that dedicates you to the alignment you match up with, for people.

In this system, Good people are saintly, and wish to use their strength to help others however possible. They willingly save kittens from trees, villages from bandits, and starving pickpockets from a life of crime. The end mission for "Team Good" is to make the world the best place it can possibly be. The archetypical "knight in shining armor" is Good.

Lawful people are regimented and orderly, and want the entire world to be the same way. Dissent, disorder, people living outside the bounds of society, and confusion are anathema to them. The end mission for "Team Law" is to bring the entire world under strict, totalitarian rulership. The Borg are Lawful.

Chaotic people are free spirits, who cannot abide the yoke of civilization, the subjugation of the strong to serve the weak, and the century-spanning and immutable hierarchies that define many societies. They much prefer self-reliance and respect what a strong person can get for himself. The end mission for "Team Chaos" is to dissolve civilization, bringing the entire world into anarchy or tribalism. The archetypical orcish barbarian is Chaotic.

Evil people are real jerks, who use their power to actively harm others whenever feasible. If they do not believe it will bring swift retribution, they will lie, cheat, steal, plunder, and murder to get ahead, or just for the sake of hurting other people. The end mission for "Team Evil" is to make the world a really rotten place, where everyone suffers all the time. Or is dead. The archetypical "lord of darkness" is Evil.

Neutral people are weirdos and Rilmani, who for some reason believe very strongly in opposing all of these forces. While some opposition to Law and Chaos and strong opposition to Evil is natural for most Unaligned people, trying to intentionally bring some sort of weird balance to the universe isn't. "Team Neutral" doesn't really have an end mission, they just want to keep all the aligned forces in balance eternally. As such, the Neutral alignment is the rarest of all of them, usually only found in rare groups of Druids, eccentrics like Mordenkainen, and strange magical creatures like Rilmani and Concordant Killers.

The "double" alignments also exist - Lawful Good people basically strive for the ideal of the benevolent philosopher-king, Lawful Evil people want to construct an oppressive and strictly regimented society, Chaotic Good people want to create an anarchist utopia, and Chaotic Evil people just want the world to descend into rampant murder and destruction.

Overall I like this outlook. Personally I have equated lawful with order. Another way to veie the law v. chaos is logic v. emotion.

I was one of those who voted for liking the alignment system. While I didn't like the mechanical side of it that much I thought it was great for roleplaying purposes as long as you had an idea of what the alignment meant.
(PS. People of the same alignment do not act the same way.)

 

[frankthedm]

I actually think Chaotic Good is nigh on impossible. Not abiding the law, but good? Well.. that makes you Good.

Oh, it is quite possible, but distasteful to some people. The chaotic good person wants the masses to rise up and slay their wicked oppressors and tear down the societal structures that allowed for them to come into power in the first place. But since that will get too many good people killed, CG heroes will generally take matters into their own hands, plunging blades into sleeping tyrants, arranging accidents for the wicked and generally using underhanded methods to make the world a better place.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Well, lol, a couple days ago my friends and I were for the hell of it figuring out what alignment we be, I came up as Chaotic Good.

I was Good for being someone that doesn't harm others, has good morals, etc, etc.

I was Chaotic for going extremely against modern social-norms.

 

[Aus_Snow]

The Chaos-Law axis has never worked in D&D. . . well, past the point where there was only the Chaos-Law axis, at least.

In some hypothetical 'other D&D', I would be happy to see simply Good, Neutral and Evil. Or none of them.

 

[Derren]

Oh, it is quite possible, but distasteful to some people. The chaotic good person wants the masses to rise up and slay their wicked oppressors and tear down the societal structures that allowed for them to come into power in the first place.

See the current Tibet demonstrations.