Alignment in the movie "Man on Fire"

[Aethelstan]

Alignment is stupid concept that should have been purged from the game with 3.0.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

He is a example of the the shortfalls of the alignment system. He can't be pigeon holed into any the standard alignment with ease, showing that real life people are more complex.

No, this is not a shortfall of the alignment system.

This is a shortfall of the media which transmit the characters' actions and intentions to the observers.

If, at every given point in the movie, we knew exactly what DW was doing and why and how he felt about it, then we could reasonably judge his alignment.

However, we don't. Therefore, just like in the case of, "What alignment is Robin Hood?" we cannot give the correct answer except by accident.

PCs, on the other hand, do have such transparency because of the player's direct involvement. Therefore, you can always accurately determine a PC's alignment - so long as the player is honest, at least.

 

[DMH]

NE- he does whatever the hell he wants to get what he wants. The fact that he kills helpless people puts him squarely on the evil axis of alignment. If he were CE, he would have killed anyone in his way, including bystanders. If he was LE, he would have used the system to destroy anyone who kept him from finding the girl and killed only those that posed a danger to himself and her.

Evil people can do good things, they just do them differently than good people.

And yes, I consider PCs who kill baby orcs and hobgoblins to be evil.

 

[AuraSeer]

This is yet another example of why I consider alignment a simple record of past deeds, rather than a component of personality. IMO the motivations don't matter, only what he actually does.

In torturing and killing helpless enemies, the character moves partially toward Evil alignment. But in risking his own life to save an innocent, he moves partially toward Good. Though I haven't seen the movie yet, IMO the former would be a larger effect, so at the end of the movie he'd end up somewhat more evil than at the beginning.

If he started the movie as Neutral, those evil acts might be enough to tip him over the line, which would mean he would start showing up on detect evil. But if he had been a very strong exemplar of Good before the movie started, the acts might not be enough to move his alignment a full step, and he would remain Good.

(The same applies to the Law/Chaos axis. He gets "Law Points" for risking his life to fulfill his duty, but "Chaos Points" for breaking the law to do it. They may even out, or tilt his alignment in a particular direction. It depends on the details and the DM.)

 

[focallength]

a Neutral character by definition in self absorved interested in his own needs and desires, and would not care one way or the other about what happened to the girl. They would do their job and when the girl gets kidnapped say 'well I did my best, sorry it happened...wheres my money?' or something along those lines. But I do agree that the Alignments in D&D are way too black and white. Is a Soilder an evil person because he kills an enemy, even if the enemy is unarmed but preceived as a threat? Its simply a "ends justify the means" mentality and this is not an evil act. But I think tnis is going down into much broader thinking that the AL system was designed for. I feel the AL system was designed to seperate the heroes from the bad guys, end of story your good or your evil, and this is what you get in a basic "heroic" D&D game. Most Dms I know dont really worry too much about AL. They use it more as guidelines, than actual rules to control your character. Good people do bad things, this however does not make them evil. If it did we all would be switching AL with the changing of our underwear (some less than others ).

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I would think that he changes alignment several times in the movie. He goes something (on the morality axis) from neutral > good > evil > good. On the method axis he seems neutral with alternate leanings.

 

[deltadave]

I would say Lawful Neutral overall... The lawful part comes from his dedication to the contract of protecting the girl. Neutral since he is trying to protect the girl (the good component) and his methods are pretty ruthless (the evil component) and IMHO they are closely balanced since at the end of the movie he redeems himself thru self sacrifice.

BTW - if you haven't seen this movie I highly recommend it.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I don't know. I can't quite tell, on watching the movie, whether he's trying to find the girl out of a sense of obligation and duty, or because of the affection he feels for her.

If it's the former, I'd say LN with a bit of Evil in him-- Acheron. He goes far beyond what's expected of him, which is why I'd say he's got so much Law.

If it's the latter, I'd probably say NE with a touch of Law. He's very methodical, and very good at restricting his targets. Remember, Evil feels love, too-- sometimes even in a wholesome, inspiring fashion.

 

[moritheil]

Do you mean that, in short, you feel that you can always authoritatively tell someone's exact alignment based on a complete knowledge of their emotions?

No, this is not a shortfall of the alignment system.

This is a shortfall of the media which transmit the characters' actions and intentions to the observers.

If, at every given point in the movie, we knew exactly what DW was doing and why and how he felt about it, then we could reasonably judge his alignment.

However, we don't. Therefore, just like in the case of, "What alignment is Robin Hood?" we cannot give the correct answer except by accident.

PCs, on the other hand, do have such transparency because of the player's direct involvement. Therefore, you can always accurately determine a PC's alignment - so long as the player is honest, at least.

 

[Rel]

To be honest, I'm not sure I care what alignment Creasy winds up as and I think it is very obvious that he doesn't either. All he cares about is his goal: To save one innocent life. Everything else is completely secondary to that including his safety, his life and the destination of his soul.

"Do you think God will forgive us for what we've done?"






"No."