Alignment shift: how long and how hard ?

Trainz said:
So with a single casting of Atonment, one could willingly switch from CG to LG immediately, if that is his intent ?
Yup, it's there if you want to use it. Whether you want to make the cleric casting it suffer the loss of 500 xp is up to you - it is possible that the character is just a product of his culture and was "unwittingly" chaotic, after all. :p


Salhan said:
alignment change with a simple Atonement? That makes me sick. Not to mention the potential of abuse. This is so not happening in my game.
As the DM, you're free to rule-0 it if you wish, but for many characters, it wouldn't make any difference. Alignment is only an issue if the DM wants to make it one. However, if you have a player that switches alignments at the drop of a hat, to maximize his advantage in any situation or to take a convoluted combination of prestige classes, then I'd say that atonement is the least of your problems. ;)
 

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This is an interesting thread as I actually have a character who is working on moving from CG to LG.

My character is a human fighter/rogue who was found as an abandoned baby and brought up by an elven corsair aboard his ship. He learned all the tricks of the trade from his adopted father and moreover, he learned of history, arcane theories, religion and other things from his father's library. Although the elf was a lover of knowledge, he was still a swashbuckler who partook in some unsavoury deeds. Thus, my character grew up to be a womanizer, and a smooth talker and learned for himself the differences between good and evil, law and chaos.

Fast foward a bit and my character does something stupid and ends up having to be drafted into the Waterdeep City Watch in order to repay a debt. He doesnt really like the lawful nature of his job and generally shirked some of his responsibilities but he had a run in with an evil wizard who ruthlessly slaughtered unarmed civilians. Since he was shocked by this senseless destruction of life, he became comitted to hunting down this wizard and bringing him to justice - thus paying more attention to the lawful details of his job. However, he also pulled a number of "loose cannon" cop moves which got him in trouble with his superiors. Essentially, he was learning how to be lawful.

Fast foward a bit more and my character and the rest of the party have been transferred over to the City Guard to help in some covert and special forces operations (we're playing in 1371 when Waterdeep is at war with Shadovar). In the party is a cleric of Tyr (god of Justice and Law) who always butts heads with my character. However as my character learned to move towards a more lawful nature, the two became better friends. The specific events which helped my character really start moving towards law were two life saving events. I (as a player) have always been interested in the psychological effects of being saved from death by magic or brought back from the dead on characters. As such, during an intense mission, the cleric saved my character's life (brought me back from -9 twice). The first things my character saw as he was revived both times was the cleric hovering over him and his glowing holy symbol shining in his eyes. I felt this would have an interesting effect on the psyche of my character and as such, he began to feel that the god Tyr had a vested interest in him.

My character also keeps a journal. I submit these entries to my DM so he can see what my character is thinking about on our downtime. I have, over 5 or 6 entries, made references to my character's growing lawfulness. The last entry, where my character began to think that law was now divine intervention, displayed this. In game, the cleric also woke up in the middle of the night and saw my character's open journal with all these references within them. Essentially my character feels a connection to the cleric and to Tyr and as such has now made moves to seek guidance at the Temple of Tyr in Waterdeep. The overall plan is to make my character eventually become a Paladin of Tyr. I really like the idea of a reckless individual coming to terms with his responsibilities, finding order in a higher power and becomming a figurehead for obedience and reform. We have played 6 sessions so far and I have just made my first shift from CG to NG.

For kicks, here is the last journal entry my character made:

All my life, I have never really been a religious person. While I know and believe that the Gods are real, I haven’t really felt any particular connection to any of them. I have always appreciated the ideas of knowledge, lore, secrets and other intellectualisms that the great Ohgma espouses and I have always kept a special place in my heart – and loins – for the dogma of Sune.

By nature I am a wanderer, a loose cannon, a hot-headed and rash young man. Conversely I am also a smooth operator, a sweet-talker and a charmer. I am a smart, rational man with an interest in history, politics on the one hand and wine, tobacco and women on the other. Order and law have never been a part of my life and my “coincidental” placement in the Waterdhavian guard has been the strangest thing that has ever happened to me. My father was a smuggler and I learned the tricks of the trade from him … the idea of enforcing domestic laws that so dearly conflict with my chaotic nature is a great effort in itself. It challenges my very being and my values.

Normally I would leave this journal entry as it is and try and get some sleep. After all, it has been one of the longest and most arduous days of my young life. Yet my thoughts on my nature and my ties to religion are rolling around in my head and will give me no rest. Thus, only the quill and the paper will let me properly sort everything out.

My main problem, and one that I need to accept if I am ever going to get over this, is that I feel I may be moving away from my chaotic tendencies that I mentioned above. I don’t know how to explain what I am feeling right now, bathed in candlelight while my comrades sleep soundly beside me. I think I sort of… “like” this new sense of order, duty and responsibility. But why? I have always worked according to my own whims, I have never given any real regard to what my “boss” or “society” would think about my actions. Why now?

I suppose I owe a portion of this entry to what I think may have been the real precursor behind these feelings. Actually, precursor is the wrong word for I truly began to feel like this when my father and I took our small voyage during my leave of absence from the guard. Perhaps catalyst is a better word for the event in question really set it all off, culminating my thoughts and beginning a metaphysical and moral reaction within me.

Almost dying twice in one day will make a firm theological believer out of anyone. When I felt the blade of that foul Hobgoblin cut into my flesh and as I watched my life-force spill out onto the grass I knew it was the end for me. Through slowly closing eyes I saw my friends come charging towards my position outside the fort, a small group of goblins attempting to stall them. The next thing I knew, I felt warmth flowing through my body and my fatal wound was closing up in front of my eyes. A pair of glowing hands rested upon my chest and I saw the concerned look of my friend and captain Taven as he hunched over me. My eyes moved directly to the holy symbol in his hands, the scale-symbol of his patron Tyr presented before me as a reminder to me of who allowed Taven to save me.

Needless to say, being brought back from the brink of death, set a process off inside of me that I had a difficult time controlling. I guess you could say I snapped. Off I charged, a feeling of leadership and a zest for life beaming forth. Inside we charged and set about a mess of bloody carnage that the evil humanoids could not have expected. I didn’t think twice, I simply swung my blades haphazardly and cut down as many as I could, their blood splattering my face and armor.

It was rage I soon began to feel as I thought of their commander, some evil Cleric of a Fire God I am not wholly familiar with. I blamed him for my near-death, for bringing these humanoid beasts to Waterdeep, for getting me involved in this. This is a selfish feeling I know, but I did not expect it, nor could I control it. It is only now that I can try and articulate it.

My rage reached a new height when I finally came face to face with him…his bald head glimmering behind a flaming brazier. As hard as we tried, his foul religious powers protected him against our blades and the spells of both Taven and Dion. When I made the decision to tackle him to the ground … well I guess I wasn’t thinking, the rage was over me. When his foul weapon came crashing down towards my head I could do nothing but watch. The force of the impact was the most shocking experience of my life and I truly knew that there was no way I would survive again that day. I was unconscious but I could faintly feel the blood pouring from my head wound, down my face and pooling behind my head. It is impossible to explain it…but its true.

When the face of Taven hovered over me again, that religious symbol closer to my face this time I had the strangest group of thoughts. Was Taven my protector? Did Tyr favour me? Did this icon of law, order and honour desire to see me live? Why would he think this…I am the farthest thing from a lawful individual. Maybe Tyr knew this? Maybe he saw something in me? Maybe Taven saw something in me? Something he didn’t know he saw? I guess I truly don’t know. What I do know is that I will never be the same again…I am changed.

I feel a certain connection to Tyr…and to Taven – like I am joined with him. I wish I could articulate my feelings. I think before I sleep tonight I will make a small prayer to Tyr and hope that the maimed one can help me to see the light and to assist me in becoming more dutiful…it is the only way I can thank both the deity and his power-channelling vessel Taven.

Connor,
 



Salhan said:
alignment change with a simple Atonement? That makes me sick. Not to mention the potential of abuse. This is so not happening in my game.
Strong words there. Would you care to explain why an alignment change is so game-breakingly abusive as to cause physical illness? I don't see much unfair advantage. The character becomes immune to blasphemy but vulnerable to holy word... he gets penalized in a magic circle against evil instead of against good... color me unimpressed.

Anyhow, before you fly off the handle, you'll want to read the spell description (conveniently quoted in a previous post). The second sentence says: "The creature seeking atonement must be truly repentant and desirous of setting right its misdeeds." That means you, the DM, retain full control of the spell. If you judge that an alignment change is being attempted for metagame reasons, or something else that's not a sincere change in the character (not the player!), the spell fizzles. Simple as that.

It might seem cruel, but Atoning a character over and over again should have some effect on the acting atonement machine i.e. the priest.
Like an XP cost perhaps? It already has one-- 500 per casting. That may not sound like much for a high-level caster, but if it's used very often (if for some reason you decide to allow it), the cost does adds up.
 

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