Allowing the Slayer to use Dex OR Con for its bonus damage

[Stalker0]

I have a 4e fighter that I've been thinking of changing into a slayer...as he was always more on the striker side of fighter anyway.

The guy is a big strength, big con hammer weilding killing machine, which doesn't work with the standard slayer's dex bonus to damage.

I'm thinking of allowing in a houserule that would allow Dex or Con to be added as extra damage with the slayer.


My initial view says his guy gets a big boost in surges and hp at the cost of light armor use, initiative, ranged attacks, and a big drop in reflex defense. So on the surface a fine trade, maybe even on the weaker side.

I just wanted to ask the board if there is anything I might have overlook that would overpower this character....some weird feats or con based abilities that just synergize too well, etc.

 

[Garthanos]

hmmm that would make him instinctive killer instead of reflexive killer... (kind of like that flavor wise). I am picturing how heavy duty that makes a dwarf not that they arent already heavy duty - but this way as a slayer instead of knight (Arent there hammer/ax feats granting bonuses also based on CON? or are those just powers)

 

[GreyLord]

We did this, as the Red Box has the slayer use his Cons bonus instead of his Dex Bonus...so we just houseruled that the character continued to use his Cons bonus and just labeled it the Red Box slayer vs. the Fallen Lands Slayer.

It's quite viable...HOWEVER...overall I think the Dex Slayer is a bit better. For starters the Dex Slayer has better viability when switching to ranged weapons and vice versa, as well as better speed and initiative (saying they put the same points into Dex as they would have into Cons in the Red Box Version). This is a FAR better trade off as a dex slayer instead of a Con slayer who only gets a few more HP. In addition you only get that big bonus for the CON slayer (since you big stats are going to be in STR and CON) with your Save Defenses in Fort, instead of getting a double good bonus in Fort and Ref.

So, I think it's just as easy to do and works quite well...but you lose a tiny bit of the power by using Con instead of Dex.

 

[Garthanos]

Hey what if we allowed him to be a Spirited/Creative/Deceptive/Inspired Killer and allow his bonus damage to be based on Charisma.... ;p

Argument can you see an issue with allowing secondary to be any attribute (aside from the primary) because if there was an attribute that made the character too tough for his striker role it would have been using CON.

 

[GreyLord]

I'd have some problems with him using Intelligence as the skills reliant on that may be something of a different fighter than a "Slayer" as well as it's more of a skill boost with some of the same effects as DEX.

WIS and CHA affect him much in the way DEX can, but with bonuses to unintended skills and enabling him to take certain feats that don't coincide with the entire Slayer idea.

We know that WotC had the Cons slayer, and the Dex slayer...I think they switched to DEX because it added a little power to the build. However, with the others they also add power...but it's a different type and would make me more hesitant as the effects would be unpredictable depending on what type of game you run.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I think that the essentials limiting you to using dex is supposed to prevent you from making an underpowered, 1-dimensional character. Forcing you to have dex secondary guarantees that you can use ranged weapons, acrobatics, have a good ref defense, have a good AC no matter what armor you pick, etc.

If you consider yourself a D&D expert, then switching out dex for any other stat should be fine: you're going to have to work harder to see the benefits of doing so, but hey! you're an expert!

 

[Rampant]

I'd make it cost a feat to switch over to another score.

 

[jbear]

Powerwise ... it seems like a very similar trade. Dexterity is a pretty good stat. A Dex Slayer is potent at range, more mobile, faster to act and doesn't have armour penalties. But they are more fragile.

A Con Slayer is less fragile with higher HPs and more durable with more HSurges. Scale Armour is a great armour, also lacking penalties apart from -1 to speed. They are slower to act and they have vulnerable REF defenses due to the focus on Fortitude stats.

Seems like a fairly balanced trade off. At level 1 a OP DEX Slayer would have 17 AC (Hide +DEX 18) 16 Fort 16 REF 11 WILL and a CON Slayer would have 17 AC (Scale Armour) 16 FORT 11 REF 11 WILL.

The CON Slayer will have 5 or 6 more HP and +3 HSurges/day
The DEX slayer gets +1 Movement and +3 Initiative

The Con slayers Ranged Attacks will be at best +3 vs AC and +5 dmg
The DEX slayers ranged Attacks will be +6 vs AC and +8 dmg

How this interacts with feats and powers I'd have to look at it more closely, but at least superficially it seems pretty balanced.

 

[Zhou Yu]

One probably important question that I don't think has been asked yet:

If your player is using a hammer, and wishes to continue to use his hammer, how are you going to reconcile the Slayer Powers that require the use of Greatswords and Greataxes (or their Superior variations)?

Slayer Powers don't include Hammers. Least, not yet.

 

[Mentat55]

The slayer would lose out on his level 7 Weapon Specialization feature and his level 12 Greater Weapon Specialization power (Mythic Slayer utility power). The former would require a house rule to allow some sort of benefit with a hammer, the latter is easily solved by taking a different paragon path than Mythic Slayer.

There is already precedent for this with the Dragon article about staff fighters. In there, among other things, they offered an alternative Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Specialization for a staff-wielding slayer. In fact, I'd love to see a quick article like staff fighters for other weapon types, like hammers, maces, spears, flails, and light blades. It could give more options to slayers, knights, thieves, and scouts.