altering d20/d&d for low magic games

[Gothmog]

Just out of curiosity, which spells did you eliminate? I know that teleport, time stop, and wish is at the top of many people's lists, but I'd be interested to see what you've done.

For my game, I got rid of raise dead, resurrection, reincarnation, teleport, wish, limited wish, time stop, and spells that allow the crossing of planar boundaries. All evocations are increased by two spell levels to account for the greater difficulty in calling upon raw magical energy. Spells that summon an entity are increased by one caster level.

 

[Coredump]

Whenever I read enough threads here, it sounds like all campaigns are either FR-based Monty Haul multi-classfest free for alls, or a only fighter and rogue choice no magic maybe cast cantrip by 11th level if you take 3 feats trial.

Doesn't anyone play in between?

Most of the 'low magic' mentioned here is bordering on no magic. (Not complaining, sounds intriguing) When we play low magic (lower magic?) it isn't nearly so drastic.

no magic shops, very little magic creation without plot tie-ins, give out less magic than normal, more charged magic, more expensive magic when available, etc.

Not saying it is better, just our method.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

D20 Modern does cover magic and spellcasting.

They're in the magical rules (though you wouldn't know that from a lot of the support Modern gets).

Doesn't anyone play in between?

I don't know about other people, but I'm just looking for low-item. Unfortunately it's easier to nerf mages along with this (they're less item-dependent) or give fighters a whole bunch of supernatural stuff that heroes in the novels rarely have (so they're getting magic no-items). That does make treasure hoarding easier, but that's about it.

 

[GlassJaw]

I don't know about other people, but I'm just looking for low-item

Most of the 'low magic' mentioned here is bordering on no magic

Low-item: I like it. That's similar to what I'm looking for too. While I like reading about other people's campaign, I'm not necessarily looking for an agressive change to mine.

I guess for something like that, you don't need any major changes to the system, you just need to be a little more cognizant of the party's abilities.

 

[S'mon]

One of the simplest and most elegant tricks to get a low-magic D&D is to require all spellcasters to multiclass, such that your Caster Level can never be more than half your character level. (You'll also need to increase magic item prices by 2 or more etc, but that's the main idea.) Keeps all the characters balanced, but restricts pre-epic magic to 5th level spells or lower.

I'm implementing this in my new games; it does seem like it should work wonderfully, effectively doubling spell levels so eg only really powerful (level 9+) wizards can Fireball. Rather than increase item costs, I already use NPC wealth table for both PC & NPC wealth; of course items requiring caster level 11+ will be rare.

 

[Afrodyte]

Besides requiring spellcasters to multiclass, I've thought of some other ideas to make magic less accessible to anybody with a heap of gp and a shopping list or characters who simply survive. Here are a few that I cnosidered. They're not meant to be taken en toto, just some things I've thought about.:

1. Make the highest spell level available to PCs 5th level. Anything beyond that is really the domain of very powerful creatures such as dragons and extradimensional entities and deities.
2. Instead of the automatically successful casting of spells that is d20 magic, make casting a level check dependent upon the appropriate casting attribute and other modifiers. Of course, they wouldn't be called level checks. In my own rendition of the system, wizards and sorcerers had a casting check while clerics and paladins had a faith check. I introduced other elements that gave flavor while also using the mechanics (example: clerics can perform devotional activities like fasting or abstinence which heightens their connection with their deities gives a bonus to faith checks).
3. Replace sorcerers with psions (still Charisma-based use of powers, though) or make them substantially different from a wizard with the Eschew Materials feat. I considered giving them spells along a certain theme; their talent, if you will. A seer is different from a fire mage, who is in turn different from an enchanter. They would be one-trick ponies, but this is more to emphasize that magic would enhance and assist, not replace, their other abilities. Unlike wizards, their powers are less predictable when they use them (or even if they feel a little under the weather or pissed off). They somtimes do things a little too well, or do it just right in the wrong direction.
4. Wizards do not automatically gain new spells. As with any rigorous academic activity, they have to hunt down the correct information and try it out themselves. There are no wizards' guilds or magic academies, so learning from other wizards may be adventures in themselves. Requiring Spellcraft and/or Knowledge (arcana) ranks to learn spells of a certain type or level seems like a good start.
5. Clerics and druids would get a major overhaul, but for the time being, I'll talk about their spells. Clerics have to serve a deity. It needn't be the deities listed in the PHB. Initially, clerics should only be able to cast domain spells. All their other boons, such as spontaneous spells, would be spread out more evenly across levels. The spontaneous spells given would be granted based upon the domains the cleric has chosen. I may decide to make druids a PrC or use that as the name for any divine caster who reveres a nature deity.
6. Replace ranger spellcasting with bonus feats and/or class abilities appropriate to the class.
7. Make paladins more like the martial arm of religious ideals and organizations than the all-around-good-guy thing that they are. I may just get rid of them and label any divine caster who focuses on defending the faith, smiting the enemies of their deities or ideals, and leading the people to righteousness as paladins.
8. Give non-casters unique abilities that allow them to hold their own without needing tons of magical items. Make sure said options account for non-tank fighters and non-thief rogues.
9. Disallow monks, give more options for unarmed combat (such as a feats that increase unarmed damge or simulate flurry of blows but can be used with any light weapon), or get rid of the Shaolin kung-fu mystical mumbo jumbo stereotype.
10. Increase the utility of skills and feats. Giving certain class abilities skill requirements, making skill synergy work based on actual ranks in the skill (a +1 bonus for every 5 full ranks seems good), importing feats that are useful and somewhat balanced seems like they could work, and reworking the class/cross-class system are just a few things I could try.
11. Magic items would be by-and-large skill-boosting items or items that bestow feats instead of the blatantly obvious magical items. Of course, there would be exceptions. Very expensive, hard-to-find exceptions.
12. Class-based defense bonus so that characters could avoid being hit (especially at high levels) without needing magical armour. I'd base it on actual combat skill as opposed to the base reflex save. I'd likely use Unearthed Arcana's Armour as DR in conjunction with it.

 

[S'mon]

Hi Afrodyte - lots of good ideas there! Check out my low-magic rules for my new PBP game:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5955/MeatGristle.html

I took some of the easiest to implement ideas from Conan mixed with ideas of my own, most of them are deliberately kept very simple & easy to use. The special stat-increase-by-level rule immediately mitigates the need for lots of buffing items.

One thing I'd advise against is making spellcasters do a caster check in addition to the regular saving throw most spells give; it's very hard to do this right - eg if you make it a Spellcraft check casters just max out spellcraft & soon ensure success, so pointless; if it's an attack roll they get justifiably frustrated when no matter how good they roll, the target still saves on a 6+. What I would recommend is Conan RPG's Magic Attack Roll; basically instead of save DC being 10+ mods the caster makes a 1d20 magic attack roll plus the DC mods (in regular rules, for the spellcasting attribute CHA INT WIS and for the D&D spell level), this then sets the save DC. So instead of a spell being DC 15 it becomes a d20+5 magic attack roll; which makes magic not weak, but much less reliable than in standard rules.

 

[Kareyev]

Easiest way to do this I can think of is to just slow down the rate that experience is granted. All you have to do is tweak the xp curve and the amount of magic and availability of magic items can change dramatically. If players knew it took 10 full adventures to get 100 xp even low level scrolls and potions become rare treasures as few spell casters will spend their hard earned xp on equipment.

Most players I know don't like this approach as it slows down character development in all fields, not just magic, but it is an option. For those that say they find the mid levels (4-10) their favorite it is a way to strech this out.

 

[Stormborn]

I would call my campaign "alternate magic." The PCs, as heroes, tend to come across low levels of magic frequesntly, or powerful magics on occasion. The average person, however, has neither seen nor believes in magic.

I have done the following to game mechancis to deal with this (if I can remmebr them all):

1. No magic using classes, Bard and Ranger have been given alternate class abilites/feats to compensate. Monk and Paladin weren't available as a starting classes due to setting. No Wiz, Sorcerer, Druid, Cleric, etc. A beefed up version of Expert was available.

2. Parry rules. This was for setting flavor, but it also helps to compensate for lower levels of armor due to a lack of magic items.

3. Magic once existed in abundance in the world, but no reliable records of the time exist. A few artifacts do. The most powerful of these are currently coming into play and affecting the political and social landscape.

4.Anyone can learn 0 or 1st level spells. It requires a source (book or teacher), time, and a succesful Know(occultism) check. It recently took the bard 3 days of study to learn Light. To learn higher level spells requires Feats.

5. Casting spells requires a succesful check as well. Casting a spell does ability damage to the caster depending on the type as well as producing an effect called Taint. Taint is a corruption in body and soul that will eventually cause a spell caster to degenerate into mishappen insanity. Evil spells produce more taint, and even cause taint when they are learned. A Feat allows a character to perform a ritual to roll a die and reduce taint by that amount.

6. As a general rule I am using only 0-5th level divine spells and spells from Call of Cthulhu. But since I choose what spells the characters have access to thats only a guide line. Higher level spells are possibly, but only through the use of Ritual.

7.The PCs, through adventuring, have recieved items or abilities that will increase in power with time. They don't know how they will increase, nor did they know they were choosing them at the time. This is to compensate for the shortage of magical items.

8. Alchemy is nonmagical, and thus some potions are available, although we haven't used these very much.

9. I try to limit or modify the monsters they encounter. Mostly they face monsterous humaniods or human opponents. Undead have been promenent in early adventures and dire animals have also shown up. The biggest single creature they have faced was a somewhat modifed Juvinile Black Dragon.

10. I try to show the indirect effects of magic. The horror in the commoners when they see a spell cast, the brutality of the Inquistion in supressing magic, the elaborate lengths that some people go to just to aquire simple magic items or spell books.

 

[JoeBlank]

Every time I hear about it, I am fascinated by the simplicity of the rule that spellcasters must multiclass. This seems like one of the easiest ways to effect "low magic" in a campaign. I am curious about the other tweaks people have made to make this system work:

• Paladins/Rangers: do you just use the non-spellcasting versions from UA, or something similar?
• Bards: do they fall into the multiclass requirement? Seems like you could let them be exempt, as most of their spells are less flashy in 3.5. Or maybe a 2/3 multiclass requirement.
• NPC class modifications: I wouldn't want all wizards to become fighter/wizards or rogue/wizards, seems like the Expert and Aristocrat NPC classes are ideal options. Has anyone added a little something to these classes to make them better alternatives for multiclassing?

Thanks for your responses.