Dakkareth
First Post
A few weeks back there was a thread about different levels of masterwork weapons. Many people objected, that it would make things, especially interaction with magic, too complicated. And now here I am proposing even more complicated stuff.
Why would I do that? Well, for once, because I had no internet for three weeks and needed something to do. Second, I had long wanted to give the alchemy skill something more to do than just tanglefoot bags. Three, it was fun. So there.
Anyway, I put together about four pages, in which I wrote ideas together I had. I'd like to get constructive critic on that which is already there and suggestions on things, that might be missing.
Now, that this is cleared up we proceed to:
Thoughts about a weapon system in a setting with low magic or magic different from the DnD system:
From a certain point in his career almost every character in a DnD game will almost inevitably need weapons invested with magic to keep up with his adversaries increasing power. Be it in order to be able to hit the opponent at all, to penetrate the DR of powerful monsters or to deal more damage in various ways, soon every character's equipment will suffice to blind users of detect magic like a christmas tree from hell.
Together with the general abundancy of magic of all kinds in DnD and especially the Forgotten Realms this can give the game a certain feeling of pulp-action or not fit the atmosphere the DM desires for his campaign. Finally the DM may want to use a magic system different from the usual DnD system while still using the D20 mechanics, in which case imbuing weapons with magic may not even be an option. This is a collection of ideas to improve equipment and thus the chances of survival in a different way.
Mundane Weapon Quality
There are only two levels of weapon quality in DnD, normal and masterwork - and although the latter implies a great superiority to normal weapons, its effects in game terms are minimal, a mere +1 to hit. Not only is this less than impressing, it's also a little bland leaving few options. Why not have an orcish war axe, which's poor weighting makes it hard to use, but if it hits, the greater-than-usual weight causes it to bite deeper? Or a dueling rapier forged by the acknowledged master smith of the city, light as a feather and pointy as a needle allowing even sub-standard fencers to best their superiors?
The solution is to introduce more levels of quality and make the handling of different boni more flexible:
Each weapon has a quality tag and an associated ranking from -3 to +3.
This quality rating is supposed to give an idea of the weapon's nature or condition, not to be a rules-speak expression like +2 flaming longsword of doom. The boni represent the weighting, sharpness, material quality, etc of the item as well as the fact, that it is usually fitted to the customer's needs.
Each weapon can have boni or mali to attack bonus, to damage or to hardness, the added values being the ranking of the weapon. The combined Bonus cannot exceede the maximum bonus noted. For example the orcish war axe from above could be a +1 weapon with -1 to AB and +2 to damage (-1 +2 = +1), the dueling rapier could be a +3 weapon with +2 to AB and +1 to damage (+2 +1= +3). It would not be possible to make a -1 weapon with -3 to AB and +2 to damage however, as the damage bonus would exceed the max. bonus in this case. One bonus point adds 3 to hardness and 6 to hp/inch, but lowering happens at a rate of 5 hardness and 10hp/inch per point.
In order to get the price for the item, use the base price and add the appropriate sum of gp. For items of substandard quality, take the percentage given in the fourth column of Table 1.
Mundane Armor Quality
What can be said about weapons holds just as true with armor, if not more. While weapons have relatively straight forward attributes, armor is a complex product made of different materials, often fitted to the user. In DnD terms this is represented by the many additional rules associated with armor such as arcane spell failure, or maximum dexterity bonus. For this reason one could conclude, that there must be more different levels of armor quality, but keeping the goal of including alchemy into the picture and for simplicity's sake we use the same rankings as per table 1.
These boni and mali can be applied to armor/shield bonus, maximum dexterity bonus, arcane spell failure and speed limit. The expenditure of one point removes the speed limitation, another point is needed to remove the limitations for running heavy armor imposes. Lowering the speed limit to 15' (10') gives one point back. Arcane spell failure is lowered in 5% steps, but no points can be gained by raising it.
Alchemy and Equipment
Looking back to our own history one of the most common practices related to magic was alchemy. Being an occult science in itself and surrounded by whispering of infernal pacts and fantastic powers it is baffling, that in DnD the most one can get out of the alchemy skill is a tangefoot bag. While there are many possibilities more directly related to alchemy, in this place only its usage in the construction of weapons and armor is discussed.
Whether coexisting with magical enchantments or replacing it, alchemically enhanced weapons and armors are a nice addition to the system and have have the advantage of being very flexible.
These boni represent improvement archieved by the use of alchemy in the creation of the item. Methods include the hardening through great heat, pressure, precisely mixed alloys, structural techniques et al. Because such improvements can only be applied during the process of forging the item, nothing can bestow alchemical boni later and due to the great work associated with these methods only items, which are created at least as +2 mundane items can enhanced in this way.
Because items created with the aid alchemy are delicately balanced in their metallurgy and already optimised near to the maximum, it takes powerful magic to improve such items even further. Alchemical boni are treated as if they were magical boni for the sake of determining the costs for the enchantment and count towards the +5 limit for non-epic magic items. A +3 mundane, +3 alchemical, +1 magical, flaming longsword would be slightly complicated to use, but possible. Alchemy boni are non-magical (Ex) and therefore work in anti-magic fields and other conditions that prevent magic.
Other than this Alchemy boni work just like the boni from higher quality mundane items and stack with them to the maximum seen in the third column on Table 2. They overlap (do not stack) with the boni conferred by using a special material such as adamantium or mithril (which is broken by the way - it works as if it had an alchemy bonus of +9 even before being worked
).
The price adjustment column shows the increase in price brought about by the special treatment. Add this number to the price you'd normally pay for an armor of this kind. For weapons double the increase. This price is the result of the considerable increase in required time, difficulty and material costs, not to mention the profit a honest smith or alchemist expects. If you craft the item yourself entirely (smithing and alchemy), half the price. If you are in charge of either the smithing or the alchemy, multiply the price with 3/4.
Equipment crafted with the aid of alchemy often needs special care, especially, if it is subject to heavy strain like weapons or armor. The fourth column of table 2 gives the amount of money needed to provide the necessary oils, acids, whetstones, etc to maintain the item for one month of regular use or a year of disuse (even if he doesn't use the item he still has to take care of it). Special conditions such as the use of a glove of storing can reduce the need at the DM's discretion.
Although the prices given are designed to balance alchemy with magic, they are of course supposed to be just guidelines. Depending on the availability, the relation to magic and the campaign setting it may be necessary for balance of flavor reasons to adjust the prices accordingly.
Special Qualities
While many of the magical abilities listed for armor and weapons can't be archieved without the use of magic, some could realistically be recreated with mundane or alchemic means. As with enchantments one type of enhancement can only be applied once to an item.
The first column gives a one word description of the quality, the second the type of enhancement needed to acquire the quality (Mun/Alch means that Alchemy can be used, but mundane work can archieve the same effect; both can usually be mixed).
Silenced: Armor with this special quality is constructed to be especially silent. For example the rings of a chainmail could be wrapped with cloth or an alchemist could have procured an alloy, that didn't ring as loud when connecting. The Armor Check Penality to Move Silently is reduced by two. This bonus overlaps (does not stack) with other treatment designed to lower the Armor Check Penality. No bonus is conferred if the penality would in theory be reduced to less than zero.
Dulled: Armor with this special quality is constructed not to give the wearer away to prying eyes. For example metal parts could be covered or the armor be painted in dark colors. The Armor Check Penality to Hide reduced by two. This bonus overlaps (does not stack) with other treatment designed to lower the Armor Check Penality. No bonus is conferred if the penality would in theory be reduced to less than zero.
Strengthened: Armor with this special quality is constructed to protect the wearers vital areas better than normal armor. For example there are additional plates of armor to protect the kidneys or some neckguard is provided. As with light fortification there's a 25% chance, that a critical hit or sneak attack deals only normal damage.
Mystical Protection: Armor with this special quality is constructed to protect the wearer from ghosts and shadows as well as from physical attacks. By using alchemic materials that exist simultaneously on the material and the coterminous planes (such as Gorgon's Blood) these foes can't ignore the armor. As per the ghost touch magical ability this treatment allows the armor to to apply its protection against incorporeal opponents. Only an alchemist can create this effect on an armor.
Arcane Protection: Armor with this special quality is constructed using alchemic materials resistant to magic. For example ground rocks mined from the underdark make up one layer of the armor. The base version of this enhancement costs a +2 alchemy bonus and gives SR 15; for every additional point of alchemy bonus the SR is raised by two up to a maximum of 20 at +5. Only alchemy can procure this effect.
Wounding: Weapons with this special quality are designed to bite especially deep and cause strong bleeding. For example the weapon has teeth or hooks to deal vicious wounds. Like the magical property of the same name every hit with such a weapon causes one point of constitution damage unless the victim is immune to critical hits. A critical hit does not multiply the Constitution damage. Only using alchemy such weapons can be made durable enough to use.
Sharpened: Weapons with this special quality are designed to be exceptionally sharp and hit with devastating effect. The threat range of the piercing or slashing weapon is doubled. This benefit doesn’t stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon. Only alchemy can provide such sharpness.
Mystical Penetration: Weapons with this special quality are made to fight ghosts and phantoms as well as physical enemies. By using alchemic materials that exist simultaneously on the material and the coterminous planes (such as Gorgon's Blood) these foes can't evade the strikes. As per the ghost touch magical ability this treatment allows the weapon to hit incorporeal opponents and ignore the miss chance. Only an alchemist can create this effect on a weapon.
Arcane Penetration: Weapons with this special quality are designed to penetrate the supernatural armor of some creatures. By combining materials with an inherent affinity to magic an natural flow of magical energy is created and the weapon enabled to wound supernatural creatures. For purposes of determining the effects of damage resistance or immunity the weapon is counted as magical, but it doesn't gain any magical boni. Only alchemy can combine the necessary materials in the right way.
Examples on the usage
Some examples of items created with these rules:
(Note, that I use the quality tags only to make it clear, which level of quality I choose)
The possibilities to use this system are many.
For example there could be roleplaying reasons for not wanting (or being able to use/get) a magical item. There's no reason, why the player should be penalized for this decision and with the inclusion of alchemy his characters power is on par with the others and the search for an able alchemist and a smith just as able and willing to work together could be an adventure in itself.
Or maybe 'magic everywhere' doesn't fit with the DM's idea of a campaign setting and by adding alchemy the whole game gets a different atmosphere.
In a high-level campaign the independant qualities of alchemy could become important as anti-magic fields can seriously influence the balancing of threats.
In a war scenario equipping everyone with sub-standard but cheap weapons could be deciding and a horde of goblins with levels in fighter and alchemically treated masterwork equipment can suddenly become a threat.
Etc, etc ...
Things to add:
-Time to build
-Craft DCs
-other uses of alchemy (acid, explosives, houses and castles, healing, etc)
Why would I do that? Well, for once, because I had no internet for three weeks and needed something to do. Second, I had long wanted to give the alchemy skill something more to do than just tanglefoot bags. Three, it was fun. So there.
Anyway, I put together about four pages, in which I wrote ideas together I had. I'd like to get constructive critic on that which is already there and suggestions on things, that might be missing.
Now, that this is cleared up we proceed to:
Thoughts about a weapon system in a setting with low magic or magic different from the DnD system:
From a certain point in his career almost every character in a DnD game will almost inevitably need weapons invested with magic to keep up with his adversaries increasing power. Be it in order to be able to hit the opponent at all, to penetrate the DR of powerful monsters or to deal more damage in various ways, soon every character's equipment will suffice to blind users of detect magic like a christmas tree from hell.
Together with the general abundancy of magic of all kinds in DnD and especially the Forgotten Realms this can give the game a certain feeling of pulp-action or not fit the atmosphere the DM desires for his campaign. Finally the DM may want to use a magic system different from the usual DnD system while still using the D20 mechanics, in which case imbuing weapons with magic may not even be an option. This is a collection of ideas to improve equipment and thus the chances of survival in a different way.
Mundane Weapon Quality
There are only two levels of weapon quality in DnD, normal and masterwork - and although the latter implies a great superiority to normal weapons, its effects in game terms are minimal, a mere +1 to hit. Not only is this less than impressing, it's also a little bland leaving few options. Why not have an orcish war axe, which's poor weighting makes it hard to use, but if it hits, the greater-than-usual weight causes it to bite deeper? Or a dueling rapier forged by the acknowledged master smith of the city, light as a feather and pointy as a needle allowing even sub-standard fencers to best their superiors?
The solution is to introduce more levels of quality and make the handling of different boni more flexible:
Each weapon has a quality tag and an associated ranking from -3 to +3.
Code:
[b]Table 1: Armor and Weapon Quality[/b]
Ranking Quality Max. Bonus Price adjust.
-3 Dreadful 0 40%
-2 Bad 1 60%
-1 Poor 1 80%
0 Normal 2 100%
+1 Good 2 +300gp
+2 Superior 3 +1000gp
+3 Masterwork 3 +3000gpEach weapon can have boni or mali to attack bonus, to damage or to hardness, the added values being the ranking of the weapon. The combined Bonus cannot exceede the maximum bonus noted. For example the orcish war axe from above could be a +1 weapon with -1 to AB and +2 to damage (-1 +2 = +1), the dueling rapier could be a +3 weapon with +2 to AB and +1 to damage (+2 +1= +3). It would not be possible to make a -1 weapon with -3 to AB and +2 to damage however, as the damage bonus would exceed the max. bonus in this case. One bonus point adds 3 to hardness and 6 to hp/inch, but lowering happens at a rate of 5 hardness and 10hp/inch per point.
In order to get the price for the item, use the base price and add the appropriate sum of gp. For items of substandard quality, take the percentage given in the fourth column of Table 1.
Mundane Armor Quality
What can be said about weapons holds just as true with armor, if not more. While weapons have relatively straight forward attributes, armor is a complex product made of different materials, often fitted to the user. In DnD terms this is represented by the many additional rules associated with armor such as arcane spell failure, or maximum dexterity bonus. For this reason one could conclude, that there must be more different levels of armor quality, but keeping the goal of including alchemy into the picture and for simplicity's sake we use the same rankings as per table 1.
These boni and mali can be applied to armor/shield bonus, maximum dexterity bonus, arcane spell failure and speed limit. The expenditure of one point removes the speed limitation, another point is needed to remove the limitations for running heavy armor imposes. Lowering the speed limit to 15' (10') gives one point back. Arcane spell failure is lowered in 5% steps, but no points can be gained by raising it.
Alchemy and Equipment
Looking back to our own history one of the most common practices related to magic was alchemy. Being an occult science in itself and surrounded by whispering of infernal pacts and fantastic powers it is baffling, that in DnD the most one can get out of the alchemy skill is a tangefoot bag. While there are many possibilities more directly related to alchemy, in this place only its usage in the construction of weapons and armor is discussed.
Whether coexisting with magical enchantments or replacing it, alchemically enhanced weapons and armors are a nice addition to the system and have have the advantage of being very flexible.
Code:
[b]Table 2: Alchemy Boni
Ranking Quality Max. Bonus Price Adjust. To Maintain[/b]
+1 Treated +3 +500gp -
+2 Enhanced +4 +5000gp 10gp
+3 Extraordinary +4 +10000gp 100gp
+4 Fantastic +4 +15000gp 200gp
+5 Miraculous +5 +20000gp 500gpBecause items created with the aid alchemy are delicately balanced in their metallurgy and already optimised near to the maximum, it takes powerful magic to improve such items even further. Alchemical boni are treated as if they were magical boni for the sake of determining the costs for the enchantment and count towards the +5 limit for non-epic magic items. A +3 mundane, +3 alchemical, +1 magical, flaming longsword would be slightly complicated to use, but possible. Alchemy boni are non-magical (Ex) and therefore work in anti-magic fields and other conditions that prevent magic.
Other than this Alchemy boni work just like the boni from higher quality mundane items and stack with them to the maximum seen in the third column on Table 2. They overlap (do not stack) with the boni conferred by using a special material such as adamantium or mithril (which is broken by the way - it works as if it had an alchemy bonus of +9 even before being worked
).The price adjustment column shows the increase in price brought about by the special treatment. Add this number to the price you'd normally pay for an armor of this kind. For weapons double the increase. This price is the result of the considerable increase in required time, difficulty and material costs, not to mention the profit a honest smith or alchemist expects. If you craft the item yourself entirely (smithing and alchemy), half the price. If you are in charge of either the smithing or the alchemy, multiply the price with 3/4.
Equipment crafted with the aid of alchemy often needs special care, especially, if it is subject to heavy strain like weapons or armor. The fourth column of table 2 gives the amount of money needed to provide the necessary oils, acids, whetstones, etc to maintain the item for one month of regular use or a year of disuse (even if he doesn't use the item he still has to take care of it). Special conditions such as the use of a glove of storing can reduce the need at the DM's discretion.
Although the prices given are designed to balance alchemy with magic, they are of course supposed to be just guidelines. Depending on the availability, the relation to magic and the campaign setting it may be necessary for balance of flavor reasons to adjust the prices accordingly.
Special Qualities
While many of the magical abilities listed for armor and weapons can't be archieved without the use of magic, some could realistically be recreated with mundane or alchemic means. As with enchantments one type of enhancement can only be applied once to an item.
Code:
[b]Table 3: Special Qualities
Quality Type Cost Equivalent[/b]
----------------------------------Armor -------------------------------
Silenced Mun/Alch +1
Dulled Mun/Alch +1
Strengthened Mun/Alch +1
Mystical Protection Alchemy +2
Arcane Protection Alchemy special
---------------------------------Weapons------------------------------
Sharpened Alchemy +1
Wounding Alchemy +2
Mystical Penetration Alchemy +2
Arcane Penetration Alchemy +1Silenced: Armor with this special quality is constructed to be especially silent. For example the rings of a chainmail could be wrapped with cloth or an alchemist could have procured an alloy, that didn't ring as loud when connecting. The Armor Check Penality to Move Silently is reduced by two. This bonus overlaps (does not stack) with other treatment designed to lower the Armor Check Penality. No bonus is conferred if the penality would in theory be reduced to less than zero.
Dulled: Armor with this special quality is constructed not to give the wearer away to prying eyes. For example metal parts could be covered or the armor be painted in dark colors. The Armor Check Penality to Hide reduced by two. This bonus overlaps (does not stack) with other treatment designed to lower the Armor Check Penality. No bonus is conferred if the penality would in theory be reduced to less than zero.
Strengthened: Armor with this special quality is constructed to protect the wearers vital areas better than normal armor. For example there are additional plates of armor to protect the kidneys or some neckguard is provided. As with light fortification there's a 25% chance, that a critical hit or sneak attack deals only normal damage.
Mystical Protection: Armor with this special quality is constructed to protect the wearer from ghosts and shadows as well as from physical attacks. By using alchemic materials that exist simultaneously on the material and the coterminous planes (such as Gorgon's Blood) these foes can't ignore the armor. As per the ghost touch magical ability this treatment allows the armor to to apply its protection against incorporeal opponents. Only an alchemist can create this effect on an armor.
Arcane Protection: Armor with this special quality is constructed using alchemic materials resistant to magic. For example ground rocks mined from the underdark make up one layer of the armor. The base version of this enhancement costs a +2 alchemy bonus and gives SR 15; for every additional point of alchemy bonus the SR is raised by two up to a maximum of 20 at +5. Only alchemy can procure this effect.
Wounding: Weapons with this special quality are designed to bite especially deep and cause strong bleeding. For example the weapon has teeth or hooks to deal vicious wounds. Like the magical property of the same name every hit with such a weapon causes one point of constitution damage unless the victim is immune to critical hits. A critical hit does not multiply the Constitution damage. Only using alchemy such weapons can be made durable enough to use.
Sharpened: Weapons with this special quality are designed to be exceptionally sharp and hit with devastating effect. The threat range of the piercing or slashing weapon is doubled. This benefit doesn’t stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon. Only alchemy can provide such sharpness.
Mystical Penetration: Weapons with this special quality are made to fight ghosts and phantoms as well as physical enemies. By using alchemic materials that exist simultaneously on the material and the coterminous planes (such as Gorgon's Blood) these foes can't evade the strikes. As per the ghost touch magical ability this treatment allows the weapon to hit incorporeal opponents and ignore the miss chance. Only an alchemist can create this effect on a weapon.
Arcane Penetration: Weapons with this special quality are designed to penetrate the supernatural armor of some creatures. By combining materials with an inherent affinity to magic an natural flow of magical energy is created and the weapon enabled to wound supernatural creatures. For purposes of determining the effects of damage resistance or immunity the weapon is counted as magical, but it doesn't gain any magical boni. Only alchemy can combine the necessary materials in the right way.
Examples on the usage
Some examples of items created with these rules:
Code:
Extraordinary Masterwork flaming bastard sword +1:
Masterwork: +3 total bonus, split for +2 to AB and +1 to damage, 3000gp
Extraordinary: +3 total bonus applied to damage, 10000gp*2
+1 flaming: +1d6+1 damage, +1 to AB, 32000gp
Dmg 1d10+1d6+5, +3 to AB, 19-20/x2, 55035gp (normal)
Dmg 1d10+4, +2 to AB, 19-20/x2, 55035gp (inside an anti-magic field)
Poor Light Mace:
Dmg 1d6, -1 to AB, x2, 8gp (always)
Dreadful Small Shortsword:
Dmg 1d4-1, -2 to AB, 19-20/x2, 4gp (always)
Miraculous Masterwork Mithril Chainmail for Eldritch Knights:
Masterwork: +3 bonus applied to armor bonus, 3000gp
Miraculous: +5 bonus applied to spellcasting failure (25%->0%), 20000gp
Mithril: Max Dex Bonus +4, reduced weight and armor category, 4000gp
Light Armor, Armor Bonus +8, Max. Dex. Bonus +4, Armor Check Penality -2,
No Spellcasting Failure, 20lb, 27150 gp
Masterwork Mystical and Arcane Penetrating Greatsword for Witchhunters:
Masterwork: +3 total bonus, split for +1 to AB and +2 to damage, 3000gp
Mystical Penetration: +2 alchemy bonus equivalent, 5000gp
Arcane Penetration: +1 alchemy bonus equivalent, 5000gp
Dmg 2d6+2, +1 to AB, 19-20/x2,
can hit incorporeal, ethereal and DR x/magic creatures, 13050gp
Fantastic Masterwork Silenced Dulled Strenghtened Scale Mail for Assassins:
Masterwork: +3 total bonus, split for: 3000gp
Silenced: +1 bonus equivalent
Dulled: +1 bonus equivalent
Strengthened: +1 mundane bonus, +1 alchemy bonus equivalent
Fantastic: +4 bonus, split for: 15000gp
+1 bonus equivalent to Strengthened (see above)
+1 bonus to speed (20'/15'->30'/20')
+1 bonus to Max. Dex. Bonus
+1 bonus to armor bonus
Medium Armor, Armor Bonus +5, Max. Dex. Bonus +4,
Armor Check Penality -4 (-2 for Hide&Move Silently),
25% chance of averting critical hits and sneak attacks,
Arcane Spellcasting Failure 25%, Max. Speed 30', 30lb, 18050gpThe possibilities to use this system are many.
For example there could be roleplaying reasons for not wanting (or being able to use/get) a magical item. There's no reason, why the player should be penalized for this decision and with the inclusion of alchemy his characters power is on par with the others and the search for an able alchemist and a smith just as able and willing to work together could be an adventure in itself.
Or maybe 'magic everywhere' doesn't fit with the DM's idea of a campaign setting and by adding alchemy the whole game gets a different atmosphere.
In a high-level campaign the independant qualities of alchemy could become important as anti-magic fields can seriously influence the balancing of threats.
In a war scenario equipping everyone with sub-standard but cheap weapons could be deciding and a horde of goblins with levels in fighter and alchemically treated masterwork equipment can suddenly become a threat.
Etc, etc ...
Things to add:
-Time to build
-Craft DCs
-other uses of alchemy (acid, explosives, houses and castles, healing, etc)
Last edited:
