D&D 5E alternatives to Nature domain?

[Xeviat]

Oh, I thought you had a fix in mind, that's what I was asking for.

Ooooh ... right now, I’m weighing moving their subclass to 1st level (so that the land Druids domains match up to the cleric’s domains ... I forgot about the Cleric domain spells as a bonus at first level), or giving them some of their 3E features. Giving them auto proficiency in Nature and Survival (that stacks with proficiency if they choose to take it), and an extra trained skill (to bring them up to par with nature clerics) would really help make them feel more robust at 1st level.

But, I’m fully revising Wild Shape too, so there’s more going on in my game.


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[GlassJaw]

Ooooh ... right now, I’m weighing moving their subclass to 1st level (so that the land Druids domains match up to the cleric’s domains ... I forgot about the Cleric domain spells as a bonus at first level), or giving them some of their 3E features. Giving them auto proficiency in Nature and Survival (that stacks with proficiency if they choose to take it), and an extra trained skill (to bring them up to par with nature clerics) would really help make them feel more robust at 1st level.

But, I’m fully revising Wild Shape too, so there’s more going on in my game.


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Hehe, great minds think alike. Based on this thread, I'm currently working on a druid without wild shape that merges the Nature domain with druid casting. I came to the same concluding on moving the Land choice to 1st level and extending the bonus spells to include 1st-level spells. So far it's looking like a pretty seamless mash-up.


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[Xeviat]

Hehe, great minds think alike. Based on this thread, I'm currently working on a druid without wild shape that merges the Nature domain with druid casting. I came to the same concluding on moving the Land choice to 1st level and extending the bonus spells to include 1st-level spells. So far it's looking like a pretty seamless mash-up.


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Well, I’m keeping Wild Shape, but I’m removing the HP aspect of it. It’s going to be a lot more like Pathfinder polymorphing. You’ll get more uses like the Cleric gets channel divinities. The land Druid will have a small and tiny forms, along with swimming and flying, and the moon Druid will get a medium predator form, a large dire form, and a huge behemoth form. It draws on the 3E PHB2 Wild Shape variant as well.

I think some of the land Druid stuff, like woodland stride, could go to the base Druid and the land druid could get some more unique stuff for each terrain. The Druid would suddenly have more subclass choices without too much work being done.


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[Xeviat]

But, I don’t mind the Nature Cleric. Them getting heavy armor is weird to me, I’d take that away, but I imagine a Nature Cleric as the servant of a Nature deity who serves a community. Druids, on the other hand, serve nature, not people. I could see them existing in the same society, with the Druids being the old religion worshiping all of nature and the Cleric’s being the new religion formally worshiping a god. The Druid would recognize that god as a great power of nature, but it’s just a part of it, just like the spirits of every rock and tree and people.


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[steeldragons]

I agree that the Nature Domain for clerics was a bit lazy/sloppy. When talking about "Nature," as a whole, in D&D game terms, you're [or should be] talking about Druids.

What priests within a given society, a.k.a. Clerics, would be revering/worshipping/extolling/receiving power from are, at minimum, two separate and distinct areas...and given the domains breakdown set-up of 5e, the plethora of various-aspects-of-nature-related deities could have used the distinction among their clerics as well.

To my view, in any campaign setting/game world, when talking about Nature DEITIES versus the "Nature/Natural World," in and of itself a whole, as pertains to Druids and druidism, you need at minimum, two distinct areas that could suit clerics well.

#1. Domain of the Wild. Your forests, your wilderness, UNTAMED and potentially dangerous Nature, animals (particularly undomesticated), the Hunt, perhaps also such abstracts as passions, fertility, lust and/or bloodlust. The deities of the untouched woods, mountains, other wild places; deities of or relating to the Animal kingdom, either generally or specifically (a god of lions, god mythologically associated with wolves, eagles, unicorns, etc...); the defenders of the wild; gods and patrons of those that deal in uncultivated nature for their livelihood such as hunters, trappers, timberworkers, just tribal/nomadic peoples, rangers. All such deities could have clerics using the Wild Domain.

#2. Domain of the Green. Your agriculture, crops and orchards, green growing things, TAMED and benevolent (or, at least, potentially beneficial) Nature, probably also some sway animals particularly domesticated, probably some sway over weather, the Harvest, possibly such abstracts as growth, health & [herbalism]medicine, midwifery/motherhood, rearing/teaching of the young. The deities of or relating to any of those things could have clerics using the Green Domain.

Nature, again, in its entirety - the plants, the animals, the weather, the elements, the stars and sky, the stream and sea, the wood and stone, the useful and the deadly -, is for Druids.

 

[Kobold Stew]

To my view, in any campaign setting/game world, when talking about Nature DEITIES versus the "Nature/Natural World," in and of itself a whole, as pertains to Druids and druidism, you need at minimum, two distinct areas that could suit clerics well.

#1. Domain of the Wild. Your forests, your wilderness, UNTAMED and potentially dangerous Nature, animals (particularly undomesticated), the Hunt, perhaps also such abstracts as passions, fertility, lust and/or bloodlust. The deities of the untouched woods, mountains, other wild places; deities of or relating to the Animal kingdom, either generally or specifically (a god of lions, god mythologically associated with wolves, eagles, unicorns, etc...); the defenders of the wild; gods and patrons of those that deal in uncultivated nature for their livelihood such as hunters, trappers, timberworkers, just tribal/nomadic peoples, rangers. All such deities could have clerics using the Wild Domain.

#2. Domain of the Green. Your agriculture, crops and orchards, green growing things, TAMED and benevolent (or, at least, potentially beneficial) Nature, probably also some sway animals particularly domesticated, probably some sway over weather, the Harvest, possibly such abstracts as growth, health & [herbalism]medicine, midwifery/motherhood, rearing/teaching of the young. The deities of or relating to any of those things could have clerics using the Green Domain.

This is a distinction that is maintained in Roman religion, with Pomona, Ceres, Priapus (Bacchus too) associated with various types of tamed nature.

 

[steeldragons]

This is a distinction that is maintained in Roman religion, with Pomona, Ceres, Priapus (Bacchus too) associated with various types of tamed nature.

And since the Romans didn't really do anything that the Greeks hadn't first, the Greeks too (Demeter, Artemis, Dionysus, etc...). ...and the Egyptians, the Norse, the Celts,... the Asian, Meso- and Native American, Middle Eastern, et al. civilizations/mythologies.

Pretty much everybody who's ever had a pantheon of deities draws the distinction between the helpful or beneficial and the wild/uncertain or harmful elements of their natural world.

 

[Kobold Stew]

And since the Romans didn't really do anything that the Greeks hadn't first, the Greeks too (Demeter, Artemis, Dionysus, etc...). ...and the Egyptians, the Norse, the Celts,... the Asian, Meso- and Native American, Middle Eastern, et al. civilizations/mythologies.

Pretty much everybody who's ever had a pantheon of deities draws the distinction between the helpful or beneficial and the wild/uncertain or harmful elements of their natural world.

Can you support this? I am not sure it is true, at least in the same sense that it was for the Romans. The Greeks did not have a distinct god of the orchard, or of gardens. What is unique (I thought) about the Romans was its differentiation of plant species.

However, I am not an expert on the other mythologies you mention, and would welcome correction.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Note it is not the helpful/harmful axis I have isolated, but specifically wild nature versus tamed nature.

 

[steeldragons]

In that sense, of having different plants or planting purpose, associated with different deities, I am not sure. A quick google of nature deities seems to answer this fairly easily.

The Greeks, of course, had the various nymphs that had different purposes: dryads for trees, meliae for flowers, naiads for fresh water/rivers/lakes, nereids for the sea/salt water. Dionysus (the Roman's Bacchus) was for grape growing, harvest, and naturally, then, wine and winemaking, associated with dolphins and leopards (wild animals), while Demeter (the Roman's Ceres) was specifically crops and grain and so agriculture and harvest/bounty specifically, while Artemis was forests and the creatures therein, specifically, along with the hunt and archery and the moon.

The North and Meso-Americans had any number of deities responsible for the creation and cultivation of corn, usually a creator myth responsible for the civilization as a whole, granting beneficial rains and/or sunshine, which would be in contrast to any number of deities of wild places or dangerous animals, dangerous/bad weather (particularly in the north for winter, blizzards, etc...).

The Celts & Germanic peoples have Cernunnos or Herne -wild animals, fertility, wild forests and the Green Man/Viridios for agriculture, vegetation in general, and multiple other gods associated with forests and trees, different trees being sacred to different deities.

The Norse, not plants, of course, but you have Thor -who is the storm/thunder/lightning and warrior/battle lord, but then Freyr is rain, sunlight, the summer, virility/fertility (i.e. nice weather and good times), AND also Skadi who is winter (specific weather), but also archery and hunting...all different pieces of overlapping areas.

The Mesopotamians/Sumerians has numerous gods and goddess of reeds, marshes, trees, and various aspects of vegetation.

etc...etc...