Alternatives to XP costs
Herzog
Adventurer
in older versions, creating magic items often required rare ingredients, instead of or in addition to the gold and XP required to create the item.
One possibility is to replace the XP cost with a quest for a specific ingredient. You, as the DM, can then make sure the XP that was to be gained from that quest would be equivalent to the XP normally required in constructing the item. (NB: maybe superfluous, but the idea is NOT to award the XP for the quest, but instead to have that XP 'translated' into the component aquired, which will be used to create the item)
This requires some additional metagaming on your and the player's part: it should not be allowed to aquire these ingredients for other people, nor should it be allowed to buy them or hire other people to do this for you, otherwise the whole structure collapses....
XP cost for spells is an in-built safeguard against abuse. You could use the same principle (requiring quests to obtain the necessary 'XP' ingredient) although there are spells with a minimal XP cost that players would probably rather just pay instead of going on quests all the time....
One possibility is to replace the XP cost with a quest for a specific ingredient. You, as the DM, can then make sure the XP that was to be gained from that quest would be equivalent to the XP normally required in constructing the item. (NB: maybe superfluous, but the idea is NOT to award the XP for the quest, but instead to have that XP 'translated' into the component aquired, which will be used to create the item)
This requires some additional metagaming on your and the player's part: it should not be allowed to aquire these ingredients for other people, nor should it be allowed to buy them or hire other people to do this for you, otherwise the whole structure collapses....
XP cost for spells is an in-built safeguard against abuse. You could use the same principle (requiring quests to obtain the necessary 'XP' ingredient) although there are spells with a minimal XP cost that players would probably rather just pay instead of going on quests all the time....
Yes, and in older editions, you actually EARNED xp for creating magic items--you didn't lose it! The idea of XP cost for a spell or magic item is boneheaded at best!
And going out on an adventure to earn XP for a magic item component only is silly. How exactly do you do that? The Fighter promises not to remember any battles or tactics used in the quest? The Rogue promises to forget about the different traps and sneaky stuff? Not only is that penalizing the people NOT involved in the making of the item, but its setting everyone back just to make something.
Herzog, its nothing against you, its the entire concept of spending XP that I've never agreed with.
If you want to do something, create something to spend, then use 'phantom' XP. If a character has earned 30,000xp from adventuring, etc., then they have 30,000xp they can use for spells and magic items and can't use more than that until they gain more xp.
That way, you don't suddenly become stupid and forget skills, feats, how to fight, spells you knew the day before, etc., just from casting a spell or creating a magic item.
You can also create magic items that supply "xp" to be used in the casting of a spell or creation of a magic item. If you don't want your guys turning into magic item factories, then just limit what they can do between adventures because they definitely won't have time for that stuff during an adventure unless you're stretching it out over days and weeks.
Jacking up the cost is a poor idea too. The cost for spell components and making magic items is so far beyond screwed up already that you shouldn't want to make it worse.
Sylrae
First Post
Item creation has been boneheaded for the entirety of 3.0/3.5. That's just how it works.
I agree that the xp costs are ridiculous. I also think the way they set up feats for item creation are ridiculous.
I haven't seen a better alternative though, and off the top of my head, I dont have one.
I shall ponder and see what I come up with.
I agree that the xp costs are ridiculous. I also think the way they set up feats for item creation are ridiculous.
I haven't seen a better alternative though, and off the top of my head, I dont have one.
I shall ponder and see what I come up with.
Wolf72
Explorer
create a separate pool of magic xp to draw from? ... it's more paperwork, but if every level you gain more magic xp (magic points?) you'll be able to spend it on different things.
disenchanting items might give you more magic xp (4e ish or WoWish).
what would you do with this magic xp? ... use it to create scrolls, wands, items, weapons, recharges, etc ... each magic item or whatever would use up this second xp pool.
you'd have to make it usable at first level for anyone writing scrolls and such
you'd be able to dispose of those pesky extra +1 daggers and shields by bartering with the local mage would in turn provide you with a future ability to enchant something.
you'd still have to provide all the other raw/processed materials and meet the level requirement
disenchanting items might give you more magic xp (4e ish or WoWish).
what would you do with this magic xp? ... use it to create scrolls, wands, items, weapons, recharges, etc ... each magic item or whatever would use up this second xp pool.
you'd have to make it usable at first level for anyone writing scrolls and such
you'd be able to dispose of those pesky extra +1 daggers and shields by bartering with the local mage would in turn provide you with a future ability to enchant something.
you'd still have to provide all the other raw/processed materials and meet the level requirement
Kerrick
First Post
For magic items, I used a variant of the Craft skill: Craft (artificing). For spells, I use ability burn.
Michael Silverbane
Adventurer
In the games that I run, I don't use experience points at all, instead, I use action points...
Characters gain a number of action points at the beginning of each 'adventure' based on their level. Also, they can gain occasionally them through heroics or in recompense for being badly treated by the vagaries of fortune.
Action points can be spent to improve rolls or defenses or whatever. They are also spent in place of experience points for magic item creation and for spells that have an xp cost. An action point spent in this way is worth experience equal to 100 times the character's level.
Action points not spent at the end of the adventure (including the wrap-up and recuperation parts of the adventure) are lost.
Characters gain a number of action points at the beginning of each 'adventure' based on their level. Also, they can gain occasionally them through heroics or in recompense for being badly treated by the vagaries of fortune.
Action points can be spent to improve rolls or defenses or whatever. They are also spent in place of experience points for magic item creation and for spells that have an xp cost. An action point spent in this way is worth experience equal to 100 times the character's level.
Action points not spent at the end of the adventure (including the wrap-up and recuperation parts of the adventure) are lost.
dontpunkme
First Post
I tried a separate XP pool for magic items in a game once (basically that's where roleplaying XP went and non-casters could pay XP costs on behalf of the caster). Bad, bad, bad idea. Because it was basically free, the cleric would just craft tons of scrolls and single-use wondrous items (heal). It got to the point where the cleric and mage both had 50+ scrolls each at any given moment.
I'd advise against anything to remove the XP cost. It helps keep more control of magic items in the DMs hand, especially if you don't allow for magic item wal-marts.
I still require special items for powerful magic items (a cloak of charisma +6 for example would require a feather from the king of the giant eagles given freely, but not for a +2). Be creative and it'll make your players interested. You can probably check unearthed arcana for more suggestions (take a look at the section on superior spell components and borrow).
I'd advise against anything to remove the XP cost. It helps keep more control of magic items in the DMs hand, especially if you don't allow for magic item wal-marts.
I still require special items for powerful magic items (a cloak of charisma +6 for example would require a feather from the king of the giant eagles given freely, but not for a +2). Be creative and it'll make your players interested. You can probably check unearthed arcana for more suggestions (take a look at the section on superior spell components and borrow).
