D&D (2024) Always prepared spells for the Bard

[Dausuul]

They should just bite the bullet and accept that trying to shoehorn four full caster classes (plus a couple of partial casters) into a single arcane spell list is a terrible idea. They're already being forced to make a bunch of class-specific spells; so now, instead of picking from one spell list per class, you have two. How on earth is that better?

 

[Charlaquin]

They should just bite the bullet and accept that trying to shoehorn four full caster classes (plus a couple of partial casters) into a single arcane spell list is a terrible idea. They're already being forced to make a bunch of class-specific spells; so now, instead of picking from one spell list per class, you have two. How on earth is that better?

Well, you don’t have pick spells from two lists because you don’t pick class-specific spells. You just get them, for free.

The reason to have unified power source lists is future-proofing. With bespoke spell lists, every new spell they publish has to list what classes it’s for, and when/if they add new spellcasting classes, they have to go through all the existing spells and say which ones are and aren’t on the list. With unified power source lists, new spells can just go directly into a power source list, and new casting classes can just say which power source list they use. Personally, I’m very much in favor of changes that make ot easier to add whole new classes instead of just subclasses.

 

[Ashrym]

I prefer a class list, but I don't mind losing some spells with the choice of spell list. Spells known was restrictive enough that entire lists is more of an illusion of choice than a reality. I chose spells to match the main style of bard and I can do that again with some spells added and some spells removed.

I'm not really a fan of "all bards must know these spells..."

A choice of spells to match a style of bard with spells gained at levels 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10 based on type of bard does what you want. Personally, I would just use the feat at 1st level and go lore for 6th level to accomplish it.

 

[Marandahir]

Yep. That, Heroism, Bane, works for me.

Why?

Only because Yaarel's mythologically accurate Bard statement required them to be all 3 magic power sources.

But moreso, I'd say it's because D&D isn't mythologically accurate, it's tropologically accurate. Mythological Druids are by and large Clerics, some might be Nature Domain, others completely other Domains, MAYBE a few are D&D Druids or more likely just know a Shapechanging spell or two. Mythologically accurate Paladins would be sword-and-board Fighters serving Charlemagne in the European Postclassical Dark Ages. Mythologically accurate Monks would be Clerics. Some might have unarmed fighting training, most would not. Mythologically accurate Rangers would be tax collectors.

My point is that you can draw lines to all sorts of stories. Bards are the best class in D&D to explore the diversity of magical backstories, but universality of existence and the Weave.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Only because Yaarel's mythologically accurate Bard statement required them to be all 3 magic power sources.

But moreso, I'd say it's because D&D isn't mythologically accurate, it's tropologically accurate. Mythological Druids are by and large Clerics, some might be Nature Domain, others completely other Domains,

Debatable, especially depending on which Celtic society you look at. Wizard is closer for some, but the only excuse for Cleric is the vague idea of clerics as priests and thus as religious leaders, but…they aren’t. Clerics are closer to missionary priests. Druids are scholar-priest-advisor-wizards, with different focus depending on society and time.

MAYBE a few are D&D Druids or more likely just know a Shapechanging spell or two. Mythologically accurate Paladins would be sword-and-board Fighters serving Charlemagne in the European Postclassical Dark Ages.

That’s a silly level of pedantic that no one is asking for in any class. Paladins are pretty mythologicially accurate. What you’re describing is history, not mythology.

Mythologically accurate Monks would be Clerics. Some might have unarmed fighting training, most would not. Mythologically accurate Rangers would be tax collectors.

These are again historical semantics, nothing to do with mythology. Largely based solely on each name, rather than on the inciting inspiration. And very specific to a time and place.

Also clerics are god-awful at being priests of any kind.

My point is that you can draw lines to all sorts of stories. Bards are the best class in D&D to explore the diversity of magical backstories, but universality of existence and the Weave.

All the other classes have connections to what inspired them. Your nitpicking of specific historical time and place doesn’t change that.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

My solution is to make a list for Bards. Or to just stick with 5e. I haven't really decided yet.

 

[Ashrym]

I would like to point out that I'm having fun with my primal spell casting valor bard. That main point has been hit.

I'm not a fan of always known spells on bards because those force the character into a roll that doesn't need to be there. I prefer a spell list selection that's thematic and give a 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5th level spell known at levels 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10 that would be thematic.

I don't feel that I need that so much, however. The choose from a list and later modify that list by choosing from other lists is customizable enough IMO.

 

[Mistwell]

So while I'm fine with the Bard getting to choose which spell list they want to use, I have a problem that their choices shut them out from certain spells they had before. So my solution is the feature

1st Level: Bard Magic
These spells are always prepared for you when you reach a Bard level below:

Bard Level	Spell
1st	Charm Person, Cure Wounds, Healing Word, Vicious Mockery
3rd	Hold Person, Lesser Restoration

More spells at higher levels could be added, but the idea is to ensure Bards get some iconic or useful spells regardless of whether they picked Arcane, Divine or Primal spell lists.

Charm Person and Hold Person, two spells only effective on humanoids, are spells I never prepare unless I have advance notice we will be fighting humanoids. They're too circumstantial otherwise.

 

[Ashrym]

Charm Person and Hold Person, two spells only effective on humanoids, are spells I never prepare unless I have advance notice we will be fighting humanoids. They're too circumstantial otherwise.

That's a reason that giving them for free is reasonable. I never take them on a spells known class for that same reason. A spell prep class can swap them in but when a bard can only swaps spells at level up those circumstantial spells may as well not exist on the list imo.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I actually really like the choice that they're giving with spell lists -- they are saying explicitly that if you're a healing bard, you're not an illusion bard (for example): players have a CHOICE, and there are more than one "right" ways to play. Giving so many guaranteed spells, in contrast, particularly when you include healing spells, means that there is an optimal choice (Arcane), and reduces the value of that decision -- there's no meaningful cost to going that route.

Without the always prepared spells, there is an interesting decision point right off the bat, and each list leads to a different "flavour" of bard. That needs to be spelled out, for sure. But it means that "Arcane Bard" will be meaningfully different than "Divine Bard" and "Primal Bard". The latter two have healing available, the former doesn't but does have a much more robust spell list generally.

It removes the selection of some schools only from the previous playtest, but adds great variation for players.

Honestly, this is the highlight of Playtest 6 for me (along with the first-level choices given to bards and druids).