D&D 5E Am I no longer WoTC's target audience?

[billd91]

Yes, it did. And the probability tables came from wargaming as well. But we were well past that by the 2e era. 3e did the right thing by dropping the tables, but they didn't need to drop descending AC where 0 was the best you could get without magical abilities.

Maybe they didn't need to switch AC directions, but it was an undeniable improvement in usability for most groups. As such, it was an extremely welcome change.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yes, it did. And the probability tables came from wargaming as well. But we were well past that by the 2e era. 3e did the right thing by dropping the tables, but they didn't need to drop descending AC where 0 was the best you could get without magical abilities.

2E it was because of backwards compatibility ascending was considered.

Note they reprinted the 1E phb after 2E came back and reprinted Temple of Elemental Evil through to 1994. So backwards compatible was important I suppose.

 

[Lanefan]

My personal opinion is that WoTC screwed the pooch with 3rd edition and they've been trying to fix the issues they interjected into the game ever since.

Agreed; but some of their attempts to fix - or even identify - those issues haven't really helped very much. (taking a long hard look at spells and spellcasters as I say this...)

 

[Lanefan]

Yes, it did. And the probability tables came from wargaming as well. But we were well past that by the 2e era. 3e did the right thing by dropping the tables, but they didn't need to drop descending AC where 0 was the best you could get without magical abilities.

How was 0 the best you could get without magic?

Plate mail (3) ==> shield (2) ==> dex 18 (-2) in 1e by RAW, without a shred of magic.

As for comparing complexity, a huge difference arises if you compare the various editions at initial release (my preference) or at the end of their runs after all the bloat's been piled on. 2e, for example, wasn't that complex at all on initial release but was a complete swamp by the time 3e came out.

 

[Lanefan]

Maybe they didn't need to switch AC directions, but it was an undeniable improvement in usability for most groups. As such, it was an extremely welcome change.

I see it as a neutral development in and of itself - neither an improvement nor a backstep.

However, the fact that it now forces a conversion in order to use one edition's material in another edition's game is more than enough to tilt it off neutral and make it a needless backward step. (had we started with ascending AC and then switched to descending I'd be saying the same thing)

 

[Tony Vargas]

Maybe they didn't need to switch AC directions, but it was an undeniable improvement in usability for most groups. As such, it was an extremely welcome change.

Mathematically, it's neutral.
But it is more intuitive, so more accessible. Of course, so was consolidating resolution on attacker-rolls, and that got reversed. Sometimes accessibility wins, sometimes tradition. Always a compromise, threading that needle.

 

[hawkeyefan]

I see it as a neutral development in and of itself - neither an improvement nor a backstep.

However, the fact that it now forces a conversion in order to use one edition's material in another edition's game is more than enough to tilt it off neutral and make it a needless backward step. (had we started with ascending AC and then switched to descending I'd be saying the same thing)

Isn't converting new AC to old AC about as complex as using old AC?

Kind of an odd bone to pick.

 

[Fenris-77]

Isn't converting new AC to old AC about as complex as using old AC?

Kind of an odd bone to pick.

And it assumes that conversion from previous editions was the primary design goal. I think it's pretty obvious that it wasn't the primary design goal, and converting THAC0 to 5e is trivially easy. So there's that.

 

[Zardnaar]

I don't use THAC0 or level limits anymore.

Humans get +1 ability score assigned how they want and bonus WP/NWP.

Level limits just a failure all around.

Racial and alignment restrictions still apply. No Dwarf Wizards.

 

[Tony Vargas]

And it assumes that conversion from previous editions was the primary design goal. I think it's pretty obvious that it wasn't the primary design goal, and converting THAC0 to 5e is trivially easy. So there's that.

I'm guessing the slow pace of publication was always planned, so that raises the expectation that older stuff might often get re-purposed to fill the slowly-filling void a bit faster...?