D&D 5E Amazon US book sales rank.

[mearls]

I'm sorry, but, 4e modules as a model? You mean some of the worst written, most poorly received adventures in D&D? Those modules? And, I say that as a huge 4e fan. While I'd love to see 4e stuff make a come back, Keep on the Shadowfell is certainly not one of them.

FWIW, we had about four weeks to write each of those modules (for comparison, in a normal schedule we'd have three months). Pyramid might have had a two week deadline, but that one was definitely less than a month. The quality wasn't a reflection on 4e as a symptom of a workflow collapse.

However, if you look at later ones you might get a clearer sense of what I'm talking about - Gardmore Abbey, the adventures released with the Essentials boxes.

 

[Oofta]

FWIW, we had about four weeks to write each of those modules (for comparison, in a normal schedule we'd have three months). Pyramid might have had a two week deadline, but that one was definitely less than a month. The quality wasn't a reflection on 4e as a symptom of a workflow collapse.

However, if you look at later ones you might get a clearer sense of what I'm talking about - Gardmore Abbey, the adventures released with the Essentials boxes.

I know people complain about current management at WotC (sometimes with justification, sometimes not) but I think it was pretty obvious that 4E was shoved out the door far too quickly. It had some good ideas, but it was obvious that the people working on it simply weren't given the time they needed. Still not sure it would have been the right direction for me, but you can't please everyone. At the same time I will always wonder what could have been if it had been given more time for review and development.

Ah well, water under the bridge and all that. I'm sure most people who have done development on new products will always have that project that they weren't given enough time to get it right at one point or another.

 

[mearls]

A week post release, the Barnes & Noble ranking is 157. Amazon is probably a little higher, based on the ratings. Probably outside the top 50 but within the top 100.

So what does this all mean? This isn't 2014, when you had a lot of people coming back to D&D and a big surge of interest focused on the release of the PHB. However, it also isn't 2008. It feels like an update to an existing game that will continue to move along.

 

[MockingBird]

In terms of a product plan, I really wish that there was an adventure designed with it in mind that I could run right now. There's no single, specific play experience that is bringing everyone together. That feels very off to me. Combat is a lot more fun and dynamic now, especially on a grid. Something like an adventure bundled with a few poster maps, like the 4e ones, would be idideal.

I wouldn't mind having the Next adventure packaging. I thought those were great. The only nit pick would be lack of maps. I loved the specific DM screen they came with.

 

[bedir than]

A week post release, the Barnes & Noble ranking is 157. Amazon is probably a little higher, based on the ratings. Probably outside the top 50 but within the top 100.

So what does this all mean? This isn't 2014, when you had a lot of people coming back to D&D and a big surge of interest focused on the release of the PHB. However, it also isn't 2008. It feels like an update to an existing game that will continue to move along.

Additionally, the expansion of availability in packages that won't be tracked through physical sales in the past decade makes direct comparisons flawed.
PHB 2024 is available on four digital platforms, physically direct from WotC and the FLGS cover won't be tracked for many moons.

 

[Parmandur]

I guess I just don't see the benefit of not releasing adventures.

Well, they have released quite a number of adventures in the year leading up to the new Core book, and they all still work perfectly: one of their stated design goals is that the encounter math will all still be the same, even if individual Monsters get tweaked. So the new book is being released in advisement overflowing with readily available Adventure material, including a substantial amount in the DMG which now seems to be "starter campaign plus campaign Setting" as much as rules and items.

I do agree some actual play would be smart: they are apparently doing a bunch of that for the new Starter Set in a year.

 

[Zaukrie]

I'm with mearls on this. A couple short adventures on beyond, even updated from old dungeon magazines, would be great. Also, play videos, videos of making characters with old subclasses, etc. the lack of marketing at this point is weird.

I disagree there is nothing. Infinite staircase just came out, but the low level adventure isn't the best for new DMs ....

 

[Parmandur]

I'm with mearls on this. A couple short adventures on beyond, even updated from old dungeon magazines, would be great. Also, play videos, videos of making characters with old subclasses, etc. the lack of marketing at this point is weird.

I disagree there is nothing. Infinite staircase just came out, but the low level adventure isn't the best for new DMs ....

Yeah, I am very interested in finding out exactly what the 5 Adventures in the DMG look like.

 

[Zaukrie]

Yeah, I am very interested in finding out exactly what the 5 Adventures in the DMG look like.

Agreed! That could go a long way toward solving one of my issues.

 

[Wofano Wotanto]

I know people complain about current management at WotC (sometimes with justification, sometimes not) but I think it was pretty obvious that 4E was shoved out the door far too quickly. It had some good ideas, but it was obvious that the people working on it simply weren't given the time they needed. Still not sure it would have been the right direction for me, but you can't please everyone. At the same time I will always wonder what could have been if it had been given more time for review and development.

A look at 13th Age offers a pretty good idea of what more time might have produced, even with much less money, a smaller staff, and no D&D brand recognition behind it. Since one of the criticisms of 4e was that it wasn't really D&D, that last element might even have been for the best.