Ampersand: Sneak Attack
- Thread starter Lord Zack
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Belphanior
First Post
JosephK said:
Feat Name: Weapon Finesse
Prerequisite: Rogue, proficiency with the selected weapon.
Benefit: Pick a single one-handed melee weapon or a ranged weapon. You may treat this weapon as a light blade for the purposes of making sneak attacks or using rogue powers.
Special: If you are a Brawny Rogue, your weapon choice may also be a two-handed melee weapon.
I'd be seriously surprised if this or something similar wouldn't be in the PHB or the martial supplement that comes out later this year. Really.
I mean... I just don't get it. All this complaining about how the rogue doesn't fulfill the swashbuckler archetype or the greatsword-sneaker archetype or whatever other archetype. Maybe the vanilla rogue just needs some feats to break into that terrain. In fact, that's what I expect and sort of require from the new rogue. You got your basic class (in two different flavors). Add in race, skills, feats, powers, paragon paths, and talent selection and you'll end up with a more nuanced character that only uses his class as a foundation instead of a tight definition. And of course we can't see the full extent of that yet because it would mean publishing all the damn feats in the book as a bare minimum.
Honestly? I think they're trying to discourage everyone just using the weapons that do the most damage. They want different classes to feel different in their weapon and armor choices, and powers that compliment that equipment.
Dagger weilding rogues are iconic, but there wasn't a really good reason to be a dagger using rogue in 3rd edition. You pretty much used a Rapier if going the finesse route, or a greatsword or other big weapon if you were a multi-classed Fighter/Rogue type. And everyone who dual-weilded used two shortswords because that was the optimal choice for most characters.
With lower sneak attack damage, it's a more fair trade-off anyways, especially with so many powers that multiply base weapon damage. You can use a dagger at the heroic tier for the +1 attack and possible 1d4 +2d6 sneak attack damage, or you can use a greataxe for, we'll just say, 1d12+ St on every attack. That's not a bad deal, especially with powers that do double weapon dice damage, or critical hits.
I'm also one of the people that are pretty sure that shurkein fall into the "light blade" catagory, as it would be a puzzling ommision otherwise.
That said, I could see expanding the weapon list a little. But we don't really know how multiclassing and weapon proff's even work at this point, so it's mostly speculation.
Belphanior said:
Meh.. Blowing a feat (whether or not they're actually as precious in 4e as they are in 3e) on changing something as minor as the weapon used just seems silly to me (while further making the non-tradional archetype even more mechanically inferior). The main point I'm trying to make, is that to me it just seems as a very arbitrary restriction.. Something I was hoping we'd see less of, not more. There is no (sensible) reason for not including a club for sneak attacking.. Or a rapier for the "rogue weapon talent" ability.. Not that I can see anyway.
Re-iterating.. It's not that I'm complaining over how horrible 4e class mechanics are, it's just that I'm commenting on a minor thing I dislike at first glance.
Doug McCrae
Legend
It does look like classes will be more limited than they were in 3e. I think that's probably a good thing, given that overwhelming choices were a major criticism. It will also help players return to the game more quickly when their PC dies, which is a huge consideration for me.
However we haven't yet seen several areas that will increase options: multiclassing, training in another class (mentioned in a playtest report), feats, the full suite of rogue powers or the ranger, which will give more options for a lightly armoured combatant perhaps including stealthy-guy-with-a-greatsword.
The ideal solution is upfront simplicity for the casual player with a somewhat concealed plethora of options for the gearhead. Maybe we'll see something like that in 4e after all. Casual players take a single class with a recommended list of feats. Gearheads mess about with multiclassing, training and feats.
However we haven't yet seen several areas that will increase options: multiclassing, training in another class (mentioned in a playtest report), feats, the full suite of rogue powers or the ranger, which will give more options for a lightly armoured combatant perhaps including stealthy-guy-with-a-greatsword.
The ideal solution is upfront simplicity for the casual player with a somewhat concealed plethora of options for the gearhead. Maybe we'll see something like that in 4e after all. Casual players take a single class with a recommended list of feats. Gearheads mess about with multiclassing, training and feats.
Last edited:
mach1.9pants
Hero
Is it? How? Light blade says to me short swords, rapiers, daggers, etc, etc. Not a thrown shrapnel of weapon, the previous picture not withstanding.Stogoe said:
Wolfspider
Explorer
ferratus said:
Excuse me?
Incenjucar
Legend
mach1.9pants said:
Shuriken are actually often used as fist/punching weapons, much like how one of the better ways to use the dagger or knife is in a punch/slash rather than a stab.
But it remains to be seen whether this is how the rules work.
I do hope knives and stilettos are included in "dagger."
Fallen Seraph
First Post
*Looks at how many more pages have been made since last night* *cries*
Anyone willing to give me a overview of any big points people have come up with so far?
Anyone willing to give me a overview of any big points people have come up with so far?
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