an attempt to discuss the actual *content* of the BoEF

[KaosDevice]

Did I misread along this thread that the BoEF is wanting to add an Appearance stat? It's funny how that keeps coming up over the various iterations of the game.

 

[Teflon Billy]

Did I misread along this thread that the BoEF is wanting to add an Appearance stat? It's funny how that keeps coming up over the various iterations of the game.

I'd actually be for that change. I found it really useful to have a "looks" vs. a "personality" stat in Vampire the Masquerade and kind of miss it in D&D.

In my experience in the real world, looks count.

A lot.

 

[d4]

In my experience in the real world, looks count.

A lot.

of course you'd think that. look at that face!

 

[fusangite]

I disagree. I think it very much mirrors reality. For instance, back in my school days I knew a girl who was incredibly attractive. She was utter perfection from head to toe. She looked fantastic.

And then she opened her mouth.

Holy CRAP! The word "shrew" doesn't even BEGIN to describe her! She made the shrew from Shakespeare's "The Taming of the Shrew" look like a kind and gentle woman. What a vindictive, spiteful individual. She was mean to EVERYBODY. Even her boyfriends got a lot of crap shovelled their way. I don't know how any of them could stand to be around her without having their manhoods shrivelling up into a ball of nothingness. I know mine beat a hasty retreat every time I heard her shrill voice.

So in D&D terms, while her appearance stat would be something like 18, her Charisma would be somewhere around the area of 6.

Are you telling me that should would have made the identical impression irrespective of how she looked? Even by your own story, that seems to be contra-indicated:
(a) Look at your phrasing "Even her boyfriends...": That's boyfriends plural. Did ugly mean girls in high school have a non-stop series of boyfriends? I think not.
(b) Again, your phrasing "I don't know how any of them could stand to be around her": I sure as hell do. She was smoking hot.
(c) If this girl hadn't been really pretty, you wouldn't even be telling this annecdote because you wouldn't have cared what she was saying or how mean she was.

You'll note, GreenKnight, that I didn't say Appearance and Charisma had to be identical. What I said was that there needed to be a synergy between them because they are not independent variables. Yes: it is possible for good looking people to be very uncharismatic and bad looking to be very charismatic. However, it is easier to be charismatic if you are good looking and people who are charismatic tend to be viewed as more physically beautiful than people whose looks are objectively identical.

 

[Green Knight]

Are you telling me that should would have made the identical impression irrespective of how she looked? Even by your own story, that seems to be contra-indicated:

(a) Look at your phrasing "Even her boyfriends...": That's boyfriends plural. Did ugly mean girls in high school have a non-stop series of boyfriends? I think not.

I was pointing out that the two need not be tied together.

(b) Again, your phrasing "I don't know how any of them could stand to be around her": I sure as hell do. She was smoking hot.

Well, yeah! I suppose if you put a muzzle on her she makes good company. LOL! But I suppose if you got a high tolerance for getting harrangued, the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

(c) If this girl hadn't been really pretty, you wouldn't even be telling this annecdote because you wouldn't have cared what she was saying or how mean she was.

Err... I'm telling it cause it's an example of someone who's really good looking, but had the personality of a squash. Had we been talking about people with high charismas but who weren't particularly attractive, I would've brought up a completely different anecdotal story. Sorry if my choice of anecdotal story offends you. :\ Whatever the case, I remember most everyone I've known (Though I got a problem with names). Guys, girls, nice, mean, pretty, not so pretty, shy, audacious, etc. Want me to tell a story about the little shy chinese girl back in school who helped me out with my math on occasion? I got that story, too. Not on-topic, which is why I don't bring it up.

You'll note, GreenKnight, that I didn't say Appearance and Charisma had to be identical. What I said was that there needed to be a synergy between them because they are not independent variables. Yes: it is possible for good looking people to be very uncharismatic and bad looking to be very charismatic. However, it is easier to be charismatic if you are good looking and people who are charismatic tend to be viewed as more physically beautiful than people whose looks are objectively identical.

Yeah, but why should one provide a synergy bonus to another? We're talking about stats here, after all. Should a high Str provide a synergy bonus for those with a good Con? Eh, I don't see a point, especially since no other stats give each other synergy bonuses.

 

[Teflon Billy]

of course you'd think that. look at that face!

Which would explain why I rule North America with my Comely appearance and my Charismatic personality.

Eric! add this man to the maiing list!

 

[woodelf]

Arthur,
How many feats are specifically geared toward the new magic system? How many feats could be used without adopting all of the book's material?
[snip]
Again, answer what you can/what you feel like. I don't need hard specifics, just a general summary of things. Other people may want mroe detailed info, so anything you can provide will be appreciated.

And, for me, just the inverse: i wouldn't care if there wasn't a single new feat/spell/PrC/magic item/monster in the whole book. I want stuff on how to actually put sexuality & relationships into the game. The bit on alignment & sex is the sort of thing i'm talking about (though, if it's a representative bit, i'm not gonna like those elements of the book) --i don't need the who/what, i'm interested in the why/how.

Now, a new use for, say, feats, to incorporate those elements--that could be neat. I'm thinking here of the personality feats in Dynasties & Demagogues--i still haven't decided if i like them exactly as written, but the idea is very cool: give people in-game bennies for playing in character, and thus encourage people to add characterization. I'm toying with extending the system to replace alignment entirely. Something similar dealing with relationships could be very cool (hmmm...like a feat "Hottie: +2 on Charisma-base skill rolls when dealing with the opposite sex" or "Family: You have a spouse and children. +2 on Will saves if family or hometown is endangered."--things like that, maybe).

 

[KaosDevice]

I think you could get by with Charisma, if you added a 'Beautiful' feat, with etc, additives. Or just perhaps an Appearance feat with staggared value +1 to +3 for example. Depending on times bought.

You throw another basic stat in, well more crap to keep track of. A feat is a feat.

Could just be my thinking though.

 

[Teflon Billy]

I think you could get by with Charisma, if you added a 'Beautiful' feat, with etc, additives. Or just perhaps an Appearance feat with staggared value +1 to +3 for example. Depending on times bought.

You throw another basic stat in, well more crap to keep track of. A feat is a feat.

Could just be my thinking though.

Mine too. That feat idea is great!

 

[coyote6]

Mine too. That feat idea is great!

Mutants & Masterminds has it -- Attractive.

Green Ronin & Steve Kenson to the rescue!