D&D 4E An Olive Branch to 4e Fans: Some Things 5e Should Take From 4e

[Mattachine]

No. It makes no sense if when you need a 20 to hit, every hit is a crit.

That's not how 4e handles crits. You score a crit if you roll a natural 20, and you would have hit the target on a 19 or better. In other words, if you can only hit on a natural 20, you cannot score a critical hit.

 

[Hassassin]

That's not how 4e handles crits. You score a crit if you roll a natural 20, and you would have hit the target on a 19 or better. In other words, if you can only hit on a natural 20, you cannot score a critical hit.

Minor nit: Even if you wouldn't hit with 19 you can crit. If 20 + attack bonus >= AC, it's a crit. If not, it's a regular hit.

 

[Mattachine]

True, Hassassin, but you did get my meaning.
If *only* a nat 20 hits, then it isn't a crit.

 

[Truename]

Minor nit: Even if you wouldn't hit with 19 you can crit. If 20 + attack bonus >= AC, it's a crit. If not, it's a regular hit.

To phrase it differently: in 4e, a natural 20 turns a miss into a hit, and a hit into a crit.

However, in order to miss with a natural 20 in 4e, you have to be facing a monster more than ten levels higher than you. That almost never happens, because the combat math of 4e doesn't work well if you're facing monsters more than 5 levels higher or lower than the party. Instead, the DM can turn high-level monsters into lower-level elites and solos. (Level 10 monster <=> level 6 elite <=> level 2 solo <=> level 17 minion.)

True, Hassassin, but you did get my meaning.
If *only* a nat 20 hits, then it isn't a crit.

Sorry, this is just wrong.

 

[The Shadow]

I don't know, the "evilness radar" is something I rather liked from 3E/older paladins. To me, it really hit an idea of what a paladin is - the uncorruptible stalwart hero who can almost tell evil by smell. I do recognise the mechanical problems with it, but those can be fixed.

Perhaps the ability can be fixed by making it less directional. More, as you say, a smell than something you can see. "There is Evil present here," more than "That guy! It's HIM!"

Or at any rate, monster abilities that "dumb down" Detect Evil to that level.

 

[wilrich]

(Didn't read each post, so others may have said some version of this already; if so, I'll add my voice to theirs).

Quick DM prep time and self-contained monster stat blocks, no fully-stated out NPCs or monsters.

If 5th ed does not incorporate the above, I probably will not play it.

 

[Tony Vargas]

However, in order to miss with a natural 20 in 4e, you have to be facing a monster more than ten levels higher than you. That almost never happens, because the combat math of 4e doesn't work well if you're facing monsters more than 5 levels higher or lower than the party.

Um... maybe a level+5 monster that's invisible while you're at an attack penalty?

I think it's more one of those 'rules for theoretical completeness' than actual use.

Instead, the DM can turn high-level monsters into lower-level elites and solos. (Level 10 monster <=> level 6 elite <=> level 2 solo <=> level 17 minion.)

Something else well worth keeping. Well, not those specific numbers (depending on how the game scales). But the higher level idea that monsters and PCs should be statted out differently, and that the defining issue with a monster is the role it plays in the PCs' story.

 

[Hassassin]

Something else well worth keeping. Well, not those specific numbers (depending on how the game scales). But the higher level idea that monsters and PCs should be statted out differently, and that the defining issue with a monster is the role it plays in the PCs' story.

I agree about monsters and PCs being statted differently, but I really wish a monster could use the same stats at all levels. So that an orc warrior would gracefully scale from a lone threat to a minion as the party levels up, without the need to transform its stats or "minionize" it.

 

[kinem]

Something else well worth keeping. Well, not those specific numbers (depending on how the game scales). But the higher level idea that monsters and PCs should be statted out differently, and that the defining issue with a monster is the role it plays in the PCs' story.

For me, that would be a deal breaker. Monsters must have their own stories, and should be statted the same at all levels, and should have stats compatible with class levels.

 

[MrGrenadine]

The main thing that strikes me about this thread is what a difficult job WotC has ahead of them. I love the ideas and generalities I've heard in regards to 5e so far, but man, when the rubber starts hitting the road, some folks will be happy, and some won't. And I'm the same as everyone else--just hoping my preferences make it in:

An easy +2 for Combat Advantage? Sure.
Yes to rolling to confirm crits, but only if crits actually mean something as in 3.x. If they stay as max damage, then critting on a single 20 is fine.
Standard/Move/Minor or Full/Minor actions.
Iterative attacks, but with a limit.
AC that doesn't scale with level.
I will roll for stats whether its included in the rules or not.
At will (low level) spells and cantrips.
Implements that enhance spell casting (and have proficiency bonuses).
Sustainable spells.
Alignment, 3.x style, that has strong mechanical effects.
Simple, easy to read, but robust and comprehensive stat blocks.
Yes! to frightening and significant effects--if not level drain, then something as evocative and powerful.

Paladins using Detect Evil to spoil plotlines is also an annoying aspect. If I want some demon possessing a local lord as part of my plot, I don't want that ruined by the application of a readily available class feature. Lame.

And sorry, but I have to address this, because as a proponent of strong mechanical effects of alignment, it just strikes me as plain wrong. Simply knowing that the local lord is possessed shouldn't end the adventure, it should start it! You know the truth, but no one else does, so how do you get past the lord's guards and defenses? How do you convince the rest of the town of the truth? What if the demon, knowing you have the drop on him, turns the tables on the party?

A good DM isn't just a good adjudicator of rules, but also a good storyteller, who can adapt to what the party does and keep the adventure rolling. Villains played at the top of their intelligence will not so easily be vanquished.