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And so, did Sauron's words convince you he deserves sympathy?

If you have read the Poor Sauron thread, what is your verdict?

  • Maniacal support for Sauron. Public torture and execution of all the Fellowship!

    Votes: 5 21.7%
  • Incredible sympathy for Sauron. Private torture and public execution of all the Fellowship.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Deep sympathy for Sauron. Execute or enslave the Fellowship, all the West goes to Sauron as reparat

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Strong sympathy for Sauron. A trial and justice for the Fellowship, and Sauron is made Rightful Rul

    Votes: 1 4.3%
  • Moderate sympathy for Sauron. He should have won, but was cheated. Those in the Fellowship were ra

    Votes: 1 4.3%
  • Mild sympathy for Sauron. His servants were incompetents, and he deserved better - even with incomp

    Votes: 3 13.0%
  • Light sympathy for Sauron. His servants were incompetents, and he should have gotten better.

    Votes: 2 8.7%
  • Neutral towards Sauron. He should have had better servants, but he should have acted more competent

    Votes: 2 8.7%
  • Slightly unfavorable towards Sauron. It's really more his fault than anyone else's that he failed.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Moderately unfavorable towards Sauron. It's squarely his fault he failed.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Strongly unfavorable towards Sauron. Idiot servants and an attitude problem of major proportions.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Heavily unfavorable towards Sauron. The only thing he can run well is his mouth (if you take the Po

    Votes: 2 8.7%
  • Severely unfavorable towards Sauron. He cannot even run his mouth well.

    Votes: 4 17.4%
  • Sauron deserved to be executed at the hands of Aragorn and Frodo.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Sauron deserved to be executed at the hands of Pippin and Rosie

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Sauron deserved to be tortured and executed by Gollum and Shelob

    Votes: 3 13.0%

Edena_of_Neith

First Post
This poll assumes you have read the thread:

Poor Sauron! The chap did the best he could, you know.

If you have read that thread, and you are willing to suspend - for a moment - the actual reality of Tolkien's Works (where Sauron does not talk like that and he most certainly would not say those things!) then you ought to vote in the poll!

Assume for a moment that Sauron is crying on YOUR shoulder, and what he says, is what he said in the thread.
Assume you watched Sauron kill himself, after his final spiel of words.

Afterwards, what would your reaction be, towards poor ol Sauron?! :)
 
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Sympathy for that vision of Sauron. Hehee, please.

One thing, that deserves no pity or justice is evil guy trying to sound wronged and gets whiny.

Yep, he had severly incompetant underlings too, but that was his own fault, he chose them after all. Who asked him to corrupt imcompetant human kings in the first place. It wasn't like Melkor made him do it.

Oh, and evil guys get bad treatment everywhere, like in this filk-song, which actually goes deeply to real reason why it is so:

"I'm a warrior born and a warlord made
To conquer the final frontiers,
But they put my ship in a cryogen dip,
And they froze us for four hundred years.

I was perfect in body and in mind,
Genetically engineered,
Till a pretty-boy captain destroyed all my plans
And the damn rabble neo-fen cheered.

He marooned me on Ceti Alpha Five,
Ceti Six blew up, barely twenty survived,
But I'm back in space and the blood from their faces
Will drain when I finally arrive.

So find me a ship, Reliant will do,
Find me an anchovy covered in goo,
It will go in the ear of a young Russian jerk,
Who will send out a signal to James T. Kirk.

The indignities that I suffered at his hands,
Those endless unbearable days,
Selling rich Corinthian leather and being
A straight man to Herve Villechaise.

My wife lies buried beneath these sands,
The breath from her body was ripped.
Who believes his claim that he wasn't to blame?
All his buddies were writing the script!"


:D
 




I have to say, Sauron is an impompetent overlord. You had HOW many hundred years to select your best lieutenants? Did you not create an entire race to be your ultimate servants? Had you not brought the mightiest of the Men to your service? Had you not plotted and schemed for centuries to bring this about? Did you not, in fact, have your will dwell directly in the minds of the commanders of your armies?

And you are telling me you cannot get competent commanders. Nay, not just competent commanders, but ones that could defeat a forest with one of the mightiest armies of the age. And you could not prevent a race that you built, that you brought into the world and had always had the rule of, from disobeying your orders and slaughtering each other?

But it is not your fault. I know the answer. When you laboured for years to bring the Ring out of the volcanic Crack of Doom, you did not know of the heavy metals present in the sulfurous fume, metals that have caused irreversable brain damage, vapors that have spread accross your entire blasted realm to render you commanders into imbeciles. You really should have had better environmental management.
 


Sauron explains the truth!

Fade said:

I have to say, Sauron is an impompetent overlord. You had HOW many hundred years to select your best lieutenants? Did you not create an entire race to be your ultimate servants? Had you not brought the mightiest of the Men to your service? Had you not plotted and schemed for centuries to bring this about? Did you not, in fact, have your will dwell directly in the minds of the commanders of your armies?
And you are telling me you cannot get competent commanders. Nay, not just competent commanders, but ones that could defeat a forest with one of the mightiest armies of the age.
And you could not prevent a race that you built, that you brought into the world and had always had the rule of, from disobeying your orders and slaughtering each other?
But it is not your fault. I know the answer. When you laboured for years to bring the Ring out of the volcanic Crack of Doom, you did not know of the heavy metals present in the sulfurous fume, metals that have caused irreversable brain damage, vapors that have spread accross your entire blasted realm to render you commanders into imbeciles. You really should have had better environmental management.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

((Humorous article))

((Assumes the role of Sauron again))

(Remember how Sauron diminished into a powerless, invisible spirit, after the destruction of the Ring? Never again able to menace Middle Earth?
Well, Sauron the powerless spirit has a look at the post above (well, an imaginary Sauron's spirit looks at an imaginary version of the post above!) and frowns, and he says: )

It all began with the rebel elves.
The Valar had their land, and Melkor had his land. Nice and simple, and a reasonable arrangement.

Then some of the elven leadership decided that Eternal Bliss wasn't ENOUGH for them - they had to have the entire rulership of the world as well.
Their leadership went so far as to swear to kill anyone, including the VALAR, who kept from them their treasures - treasures the Valar helped them make, not to mention they learned the lore of treasure-making FROM the Valar.
They tried, these elves, to convince all the rest of their kind to join in their rebellion, and when some of the elves would not, they slaughtered them and stole their ships.
Then they came back over the ocean, these rebel elves who had murdered their own kind.

The Valar cursed these rebel elves to death and darkness in a famous statement called the Curse of Mandos.
Some of the wiser elves repented and turned back, seeking pardon, but the hotheads had to have their way, and would not listen to their own patrons - not even when they faced certain death and destruction, and they went anyways.

They took all the lands, as you please, as theirs.
They did not ask permission, and they did not treat with the local leaders - they took what they wanted, and then more.
They effectively forced all the native peoples into subjugation, and they killed or drove off all of Melkor's people.

Now ...

The EDAIN, which you call the Forefathers of Men, came west seeking the light of Valinor.
Of course, the Valar had - in their wisdom - forever sealed Valinor AWAY from the poor men, but they didn't know that.
The rebel elves gave the Edain a long spiel about how rotten Melkor was, and otherwise propagandized them to death.

So of course, when Melkor took back what was his, the Edain suffered, and the Edain blame it all on Melkor, of course.
These same Edain accepted the ELVES - the idiot elves who KEPT ON murdering their own kind - as their rulers, but when Melkor asked for reason and rightful rule, they listened to the elves (they ALWAYS listen to the stupid elves ... obviously, the elves must know EVERYTHING, right??) and denounced Melkor.

The Edain became the Numenorians, and after a time they realized how the Valar were messing them over.
The Valar would not even permit the Numenorians, who had fought and bled and died in the cause of the Valar, to LAND on their coastline, much less actually visit them and the elves.
The Valar believed, strictly, in walling men away from their land - in segregation, as it were - and keeping men in their place.

And note, when Ar-Pharazon the Great went up against the Valar, seeking rightful reparation from the Valar, he was accorded less mercy than Melkor EVER gave those HE conquered.
Melkor merely enslaved those he conquered, and sent his servants to rule occupied lands.
The Valar, on the other hand, UTTERLY DESTROYED Ar-Pharazon, his men, and his entire people - I am talking about hundreds of thousands of innocent women and children here! - and their homeland was utterly destroyed.

Now, the Valar never punished ME.
They could have.
They could have sent Eonwe over the Sea after me - but no, they did no such thing.
Don't you ever wonder about that? For it was I who councilled Ar-Pharazon to invade Valinor, who gave him the knowledge that it was his right to go there, and to hobnob with the elves and Valar if it pleased him.
So, they did not punish me, the Maia, but they killed ALL the men, women, and children.

This, you must understand, is Vala justice.
They fail to punish those they know are truly the wrongdoers, yet they punish and destroy the victims.

That assumes I was a wrongdoer, which I was not.
I was telling Ar-Pharazon the truth. Only TWO men in all of history have EVER been allowed into Valinor: Amandil and Earendil.
And yet, the MOMENT the elves awoke in Cuiveren, the Valar were right there, begging them to come and live with them forever.
And that, is racist. The worst kind of racism.

Anyways ...

The Dunedain are the survivors of the Numenorians.
They INSIST on staying loyal to the Valar, EVEN THOUGH the Valar are still withdrawing from them the gift of longevity.
Despite all their loyalty and their courage and their altruism, the Valar are still sticking it to them.

Had the Dunedain sided with me, I would have given them a just reward and a place in Middle Earth high on the pecking order, but no ... they must make war on me, in the name of the Valar who are messing them over, and with the elves who are leaving Middle Earth anyway.
And they come, and they break down my Tower, take my Ring, and nearly kill me.
After that, these Dunedain enslave - they call it their just rulership - the peoples of Wilderland, the Vales of Anduin, Edenwaith, Anfalith, Dunland (and you wonder why the free peoples of Dunland sided against the Dunedain? LOL), Rhun, Harad, and they slaughter all of Melkor's people outside of Mordor, and build great fortresses to keep the survivors inside.
To leave them there, to starve.
Real filled with pity and mercy, these Dunedain are. They PREACH pity and mercy, but was there pity and mercy for Melkor's creations?
No.

When I came back from the loss of the Ring, these Dunedain were running EVERYTHING.
They had Gondor. They had Arnor. They held all the lands west of Anduin. They had as tributary all the lands east of Anduin except what you know as the Lonely Mountain area.
In their pride and arrogance, the Dunedain had decided everyone would bow to them, and the only reason Moria was not a province of theirs was because the dwarves were underground, had powerful defenses, and were in truly huge number.
Oh, did I mention that the Dunedain suddenly decided that elves were for crap, and would have nothing further to do with them? A good decision, actually, but not made out of any real vision or understanding - the arrogant, prideful Dunedain simply decided they were the supreme race.

I took these Dunedain down several notches.
I did what should have been done.
My servants, working on a shoestring, took out Arnor after it's rulers - so insanely corrupt and decadent they lost all wisdom altogether - decided to break up their own nation!
Weak tribes of men - weak tribes of nomadic men, all I had to work with! - freed the people of Harad, Rhun, and Wilderland from the tyranny of Gondor.

The crazy Dunedain of Gondor decided to have this massive civil war - you speak of my servants slaughtering each other; they cannot hold a candle to the Dunedain! - in which hundreds of thousands of their own people were butchered, their CAPITAL CITY was razed to the ground, and they lost one of their own Palantir in the fracas.
Why did they kill each other?
Apparently, because of the lessening of longevity.
Of course, when you are DEAD (because someone hit you with a sword, or axed you, or shot you down) longevity is a bit useless, no?

And so, Gondor, led by it's wise and farseeing Kings and Stewards (snorts) withered away.
I had very little to do with that, actually. The idiot Dunedain destroyed themselves.

My High Commander took back from these idiots the fortresses ringing my homeland.
He went on to heroically take Minas Ithil, the city they audaciously built on the borders of my country.
He was able to defend it against repeated attacks from the Dunedain - idiot attacks, topped off when the King of Gondor himself comes riding up with a couple of horsemen, and knocks on the front gate, and demands a one on one battle with my High Commander!

My servants rebuilt Mordor, our homeland.
We rebuilt Barad-dur, destroyed by the elves.
Our Allies of Old, the Haradrim and Men of Rhun, returned to aid us.

The fool dwarves were so greedy they dug down and woke up the balrog.
Now, that balrog was NOT under my control - since the departure of Melkor there was nobody in Middle Earth who could have controlled it.
It is not my doing that the fool dwarves woke the thing up, and the consequences of that waking, is upon their heads, not mine.

Likewise, I did not say - here is the great and mighty Lonely Mountain, filled with vast, immeasurable riches - COME AND GET IT!
You would have thought the dwarves might have prepared a DEFENSE against the dragons, especially since the dragons were really quite close, just up the moors in the Grey Mountains!

Of course, the elves were all leaving.
Eventually, so many left that Linden, Imladris, and Larelindorian had no armies left to muster, and Thranduil's force in Mirkwood was a small thing.

You know, you would THINK the elves would know enough, by this point, to STAY OUT of the affairs of Middle Earth.
After all, aren't they all LEAVING Middle Earth?
Haven't they returned the favor of Men, and snub them at every opportunity?
Don't they look down on dwarves, and even make war against them? Thranduil almost slaughtered Dain's people!

So, we have ...

The Dunedain, who slaughter each other, break up their own nations, and sit back in decadence, while their slaves are worked to death in the fields.
The Dwarves, content in their underground nations, and so greedy and arrogant they don't even bother to keep an eye out for dragons ... or balrogs.
The Elves, who are for the most part LEAVING, and those who are staying are strictly isolationist, racist, and supercillious.

Then there are Melkor's people, the orcs and trolls.
They are trying to make a comeback, after being massacred by the elves and Dunedain.
They had shelter and safety in Mordor, and in a few isolated places elsewhere.

The wise men of Harad and Rhun welcome Melkor's people, unite with them, and there is peace and prosperity in many wide lands, from Dorwinion with it's famous grape orchards, in the northwest, through Rhun with it's great inland sea, to Khand, and across Harad to the great seaport of Umbar.
There is PEACE.
There is prosperity.
The rule of law is in force.
Nobody is allowed to drive off or kill another because of their race or creed.

Whereas, in the lands of the rebels, there is anarchy.
The elves hate the dwarves. The dwarves hate the elves. The elves hate the humans. The humans hate the elves. The humans hate the humans.
Whole regions of land are now desolate, all the farms gone wild, and bandits and brigands ruling where great cities and nations once stood.
Nobody is safe in field or wild, nobody trusts anyone else, there is no trade, and there is no hope.

Had they accepted my rulership, there would have been peace, prosperity, and a just share for them in my confederation of nations.

What was so bad about that?

- - -

It was NOT the fault of my servants that I was defeated.
How could we have known that a rat, from a stupid place called the Shire, would turn out to have the full powers of a Maia??!

This rat, Frodo ... the rebels call him a hobbit ... was my undoing.

He enslaved Gandalf.
He killed Elrond.
He ran circles around my Nine, and laughed at them.
He DEFEATED my Nine, AFTER taking the Morgul Wound - which shows just how powerful he truly IS!
He threw the flood at my Nine, and they - being reasonable intelligent - fled for it.

He killed that balrog, while his stooge Gandalf engaged it.
He teamed up with the Great Enemy, Galadriel, to harness her elven magic, so he could raise the Forests against me.

He ... he MASTERED the One Ring, my Ring!
Impossible!
Yet he did it. Otherwise, HOW could he have resisted it ... only one as powerful as I could have done that!

He threw forests at that idiot Saruman, and downed him and all his forces.
Which was no great loss. First, Saruman is a stooge of the Valar, leading that White Council club that never did anything of use in all the years of their existence.
Then, Saruman is out for himself.
Then, Saruman says he is with me.
Then, Saruman decides to betray me.
Then, Saruman decides to rejoin with me.
Then, he disappears, and - if what I hear is true - a bunch of the HOBBITS killed him!
What a complete incompetent.

This Frodo had the power of the One Ring at his command.
However, he had that man, Aragorn, act as a decoy, and I thought Aragorn had the Ring - I admit, I made a mistake there.
I thought the rebels would give the Ring to a MAN, not a RAT ... but of course I was wrong, and at that time I did not appreciate that THIS rat was a superrat, equal in power to ME.

So, Frodo throws down my High Commander.
He bypasses my defenses at Minas Morgul.
With the One Ring, you cannot blame my servants for failing to catch him! With the One Ring, Frodo was strong enough to nearly kill Shelob and sack the Tower of Cirith Ungol, killing everyone in it!

Finally, Frodo goes to where I, SAURON, forged the One Ring, and it is HERE that he declares himself, and claims the Ring.
Talk about In Your Face!!
He comes to the heart of my country, and challenges me directly, and claims my property as his own.

I was no match for Frodo!
All my armies had been diverted to crush Aragorn and his pitiful band of outlaws - and with good reason, for if Aragorn HAD had the One Ring, they would have been the MATCH of my entire army!
So, I was undefended in Barad-Dur, and Frodo was coming for me, and would have arrived within minutes.

I was not able to take on Frodo when I was still in spirit form!
I needed more time, time in which to regain physical form, and greater strength.
For the greater part OF my strength was in the One Ring, and Frodo had it - even if I HAD managed to regain corporeal form and all possible strength, I could not have defeated him.

I did not wish to be enslaved and tortured by Frodo, I admit.
Would you?
So, I killed myself.
Death is a far better fate than to be the eternal slave of the Ringlord!

My servants did the best they could.
I did the best I could.

I was in the process of placating the maniacal Dunedain, the dwarves, the elves, and trying to bring them into the Grand Kingdom.
I was trying to bring peace and prosperity back to these rebels.
I was trying to ween them away from their misguided worship of the Valar, who betrayed them over and over again.
I was trying to break them away from the elvish propaganda, to which they had held onto in part.

And I would have succeeded.
I should have succeeded.

But some rat from a ratland - they live in holes in the ground, and you call my orcs backward??? - comes along, and turns out to be as strong as me, and kicks my butt.

Maybe it was Tom Bombadil, all along.
Maybe he decided to abandon his ancient neutrality, take on the form of the rat to disguise himself, and come after me.
That CERTAINLY would make more sense than this Frodo person ... but I will never know.

So yeah, now the Dunedain are lording it over everyone again.
This Aragorn - a wandering outcast and brigand, looked down upon even in Bree village! - is now their new King!
And he has re-enslaved the peoples of Wilderland, Rhun, and Harad.
He has declared himself Lord and Master of all Eriador.

He is doing just what the Dunedain have always done, and always will do, and when the inevitable disaster befalls them, I, Sauron, won't be there this time to help them!
I almost pity them, the Dunedain. They got a bad deal from the beginning, when they were the Edain, and they were cheated and misled by the rebel elves, who even the Valar had cursed to death and darkness.

However, I CANNOT pity them, because once more they are massacring Melkor's people, the orcs and trolls, and that is not right.
They have declared all orcs and trolls in ALL the lands are to be slain, except once more those bottled up and left to starve in Mordor itself.


Do I want your sympathy?
No. I am Sauron, and although I am defeated, I still have my honor and dignity.
I accept my defeat, and if I am angry that a rat came and destroyed me, then that is my right.
If I am horrified that a loser of a wandering brigand is now King of practically ALL of Middle Earth, and he is declaring All shall be this way, and that way as if he were a Vala himself, then I have a right to be horrified.

If people had listened to me, there would have been a just place for all elves, dwarves, and men, and even the rats which are called hobbits, in my Realm.
The elves would not be gone from Middle Earth.
The dwarves would rule in splendor in Khazad-Dum.
Men would live in peace and harmony.
The Children of Melkor would have a just and rightful place in the Great Realm.

However, they did not listen.
The elves are mostly gone.
Khazad-Dum is still empty and haunted.
Men are leaderless, divided, and hate each other - and most certainly, they hate the new tyrant of Middle Earth, Aragorn.

So vote in that poll as you wish.
I care not how you vote.
Simply remember the noble and great things I did, and remember that all of Arda is lessened now that I am gone ... the Three are gone, the Seven are gone, and Melkor's Children are gone.
 
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