Andy Collins speaks - Upcoming Products

[Sir Brennen]

I couldn't agree more.

While all of those who have posted negative (or merely unenthused, perhaps) comments are certainly entitled to that sentiment, it might be a bit more edifying for the rest of the community (and even publishers perusing these forums) to at least state why you feel this way, or what you might like to see instead.

It seems strange to me that a DnD player (an assumption, I admit, about anyone who posts on this thread) is so completely dismissive about such a wide variety of upcoming products. I mean, c'mon - adventures, an entirely new magic system, new PC race options, PC-specific campaign material, an enourmous player/DM resource for spells - what is it that the nay-sayers need to keep them from self-mutilation?

I've been a player for over 20 years, and I still don't get the type of jaded, uninsightful comments like I see on threads like these. I'm amazed that anyone with that much apathy even makes an effort to post :\

 

[Melkor]

You are partially correct Sir Brennan.

I am not completely dismissive about the upcoming products, rather, I am unenthused about what appears to me to be "more of the same". I have been very unimpressed by the majority of WoTC D&D products for quite a while now - with the exception of the DMG II.

Why ? I can't say for sure - they just don't grab my interest.

What would I like to see ? I also can't give a definitive answer to that question, about the best I can do is mention a few recent (non WoTC) D&D purchases that have spurred quite a bit of enthusiasm from myself and my gaming group:

Necromancer/Judges Guild: City State of the Invincible Overlord, Player's Guide to the Wilderlands, and Wurst of Grimtooth's Traps.
Green Ronin: Hamunaptra Boxed Set and Dungeons of Doom

In my ever-so-humble opinion, the upcoming products mentioned by Andy Collins seem rather boring and stale to me, and that's pretty much all I have to say about it.

While all of those who have posted negative (or merely unenthused, perhaps) comments are certainly entitled to that sentiment, it might be a bit more edifying for the rest of the community (and even publishers perusing these forums) to at least state why you feel this way, or what you might like to see instead.

It seems strange to me that a DnD player (an assumption, I admit, about anyone who posts on this thread) is so completely dismissive about such a wide variety of upcoming products. I mean, c'mon - adventures, an entirely new magic system, new PC race options, PC-specific campaign material, an enourmous player/DM resource for spells - what is it that the nay-sayers need to keep them from self-mutilation?

I've been a player for over 20 years, and I still don't get the type of jaded, uninsightful comments like I see on threads like these. I'm amazed that anyone with that much apathy even makes an effort to post :\

 

[the black knight]

The current releases hold no interest for me because I find them to be largely unnecessary. Time and again Wotc has ignored the community at large when considering new products and throws any number of arbitrary ideas at us in an attempt to run out the clock on 3e. Where's the updated Epic book people have asked for? Where is the hardback Greyhawk people have been asking for for five years? Instead, we get Power of Faerun, Shadow magic, Races of the Dragon, Incarnum, Fantastic locations (which are anything but fantastic) and other unwanted items. None of it needed, or even asked for.

 

[DaveMage]

None of it needed, or even asked for.

No book is needed beyond the core three. (And of course, with the SRD online and free, you don't really need those books either.)

I expect WotC to continually present unique products that are imaginitive, inspiring, and usable in my D&D game. Not every product they make excites me tremendously, but overall I think they do a very good job.

 

[Welverin]

I do wonder, however, what interesting things might be in a 3.5 Tome of Magic. I mean most of the spells in their are actually in the 3.x PH, and most of the others have been put in other books. The Wildmage was in Complete Arcane.

I wonder if they might try to do an actual Elementalist class or prestige class. I also wonder if they might introduce some deccent rules for coperative/group spellcasting

Haven't seen a description yet I take it?

The new ToM is actually rules for three newish types of magic, pact, true name, and shadow (I believe that's the last one). SO while it uses the name of the 2e book, it's something rather different.

 

[romp]

Thanks for posting these bits, Merric,

none of these really piques my interest other than a mild curiousity about the "new format" for the Player's Guide to Eberron, The PGE is the only one of these that i would look at but since i DM mostly, I am not really interested in more crunch...

Does anyone else see the Races of the Dragon (and no offense meant to any of the desingers) book as being almost pure munchkinism?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Does anyone else see the Races of the Dragon (and no offense meant to any of the desingers) book as being almost pure munchkinism?

Since kobolds are the stars and are a sub LA 0 race, absolutely not. Unless you know of a bunch of people buying it for the other races, but all indications I've seen is that people who want to buy it (including myself) want it for the kobold write-up. Go check out their stats as a race and come back and say they're munchkin-worthy.

 

[MerricB]

Thanks for posting these bits, Merric,

You're very welcome (as is everyone else whose found Andy's comments interesting).

Does anyone else see the Races of the Dragon (and no offense meant to any of the desingers) book as being almost pure munchkinism?

A book about playing kobolds is pure munchkinism? That's new. (Avoids being trampled by a mob of angry kobolds).

Whew! A bit more seriously, if the book were about playing pure dragons as PCs, then I'd be more concerned.

One of the interesting things about D&D is that in the very early days, players were encouraged to play anything! To quote Gygax in the original D&D game, "There is no reason that players cannot be allowed to play as virtually anything, provided they begin relatively weak and work up to the top, i.e. a player wishing to be a Dragon would have to begin as, let us say, a "young" one and progress upwards in the usual manner, steps being predetermined by the campaign referee."

By the publication of the AD&D DMG, Gygax was actively discouraging anything outside the norm.

With 3E, the idea of playing monsters (or non Tolkienesque humanoid races) really started to get opened up again, and thoughts were given to keeping things balanced. 3E wasn't really designed to allow that, however; that's one reason why 3.5E mucked around so much with monster creation rules: so that players could use them as PCs more easily.

As explained on the ECL/LA thread, even 3.5E doesn't quite work for existing monsters as PCs. Although the concept of the balance required is much better understood, the tools are too gross for them to quite work.

However, it is possible to design new monster-type races as PC races, and we're seeing that in the Races books, and in some of the environ books. The Raptorans exist because they're much better balanced as a flying race than what came before.

The move away from non-Tolkienesque fantasy isn't limited to D&D, of course. My fantasy novel collection continues to grow, and the strange races and creatures described there are a long way from our mythological traditions. As a race, we like telling stories and creating new things; D&D would be remiss if it didn't keep up with the rest of the world.

New Draconic-themed races are both new and old, tapping in to our mythological roots while giving it a new spin. I'm sure there are people out there who think it's really fun to play draconic-themed races, regardless of the power levels involved. Of course, there are also those who look to how powerful they are.

However, with this edition, the designers and (especially) the developers are paying attention to how new races integrate with the existing ones. So, with any luck, choosing a dragonkin race won't be "I've got the most powerful PC", but instead just "I have a really cool PC who is fun to play!"

Incidentally, in my ongoing Living Greyhawk game, one of the players now has a low-level Centaur PC alongside other 1st and 2nd level characters. She's been working well with the group - being effective, but not overwhelming the other PCs. That's something that Races of the Wild opened up to her, and she's enjoying the experience.

Cheers!

 

[Merlion]

From what I'm seeing, it's a resource management approach to magic. Look at the way the feats describe investing essentia. You get an effect from the investment, but the investment is "locked" for 24 hours. My understanding is that the base and PrC "incarnum classes" will be able to do the same thing, but can re-allocate how the essentia is invested, sometimes even round to round, making them much more flexible. Add in the soulmeld idea - semi-permanent items created pretty much on the fly - and sounds like you got a new system to me

This is what I read on the WOTC website:

This supplement introduces a magical substance called incarnum into the D&D game. With this book, the players characters can meld incarnum—the power of souls living, dead, and unborn—into magical items and even their own bodies, granting them special attacks, defenses, and other abilities (much as magic items and spells do). Incarnum can be shaped and reshaped into new forms, giving characters tremendous versatility in the dungeon and on any battlefield.

Sounds like a new magical "substance" that you put into items or your body to gain new powers.

Not a new spellcasting system, or a new form of magic...basically a new class of magic item. I just dont go much for magic that stems from items or substances, so it isnt that interesting to me. Not to say I'd never look at or use it

The new ToM is actually rules for three newish types of magic, Ppact, true name, and shadow (I believe that's the last one). SO while it uses the name of the 2e book, it's something rather different

Now that sounds interesting, especially the true name part, however I did really hope the Elementalist would get some attention

 

[Pramas]

The current releases hold no interest for me because I find them to be largely unnecessary. Time and again Wotc has ignored the community at large when considering new products and throws any number of arbitrary ideas at us in an attempt to run out the clock on 3e.

One thing to keep in mind is that the D&D schedule is planned out years in advance. The designers right now are likely working on products that won't come out until late 2006 or early 2007. Because of these long lead times, WotC can't really turn on a dime. Even if they decided today to start working on new epic book, you wouldn't see it for a long time.