D&D General (Anecdotal) conversations with Asian gamers on some problems they currently face in the D&D world of RPG gaming

[Mercurius]

SNIP

I just loved this rant/ramble/diatribe. Very entertaining and with lots of good points. Thanks for that.

It is hard to know how to respond to such a rich post, but I'll tease out one element. The colonial thing is interesting, because in a way D&D is very much based on colonialism, but with very different assumptions: that there is real evil that is encroaching on the "light of civilization," that Monster Be Here, a Terra Incognita that includes dragons and magic and treasure. Or the 4E version: the "Points of Light" in the monster-infested wilderness. And yes, it has elements of the Old West, probably because Gygax & Co were Americans (midwesterners, at that). They created D&D when the Spaghetti Western was still going strong. But you're right, both in terms of OA and the inception of D&D: the primary sources of inspiration are secondarily history, and primarily fiction: literature and film.

But I don't think this is a jab at indigenous peoples, as if Gygax etc--not to mention the hundreds that came after--were saying that indigenous people were evil and needed to be civilized. The whole set-up is one of "gamism"--what assumptions make sense to create a fun and exciting context for an adventuring experience. It is a make-believe scenario, and inherently simplistic relative to the real world. If anything, the reverse is true--at least from the Tolkienian perspective: the orcs are soldiers of the evil emperor who seeks world dominion, and the natural and native people rally to defeat them.

D&D has evolved since then. There is more nuance, a greater diversity of tropes and themes, and the underlying assumptions have been--at the least--loosened up. I hope to see that continue. If nothing else, I hope that WotC takes this opportunity to provide a wider range of campaigns themes and worlds to explore. How about something closer to Le Guin's Earthsea or Erikson's Malazan, or the OGL Midnight setting in which the good guys existed in tiny pockets within an evil (colonialist) empire.

One more thing. I love what you said about Ray Bradbury's coda. It is strange and worrisome how anyone could think that getting rid of the past would solve anything. If anything, we need the mistakes of the past to make a better future. It makes me think that no one reads Fahrenheit 451, 1984, Brave New World etc anymore. Woe is us.

 

[Panda-s1]

I certainly agree. I'm sure these guys were as helpful as they could be, but they're just five names who look like copy editors or proofreaders. They must have some expertise in history or Asian culture, but they don't appear to be game designers to me. And the credit even notes how they didn't have much time to help. It's a far stretch from a byline.

they didn't have "expertise" though, they're called "the players" and are only credited as offering some critique on the manuscript. not only that, but they're all Japanese, and don't seem to have the level of knowledge to give a cultural critique to the entire book.

I think that someone who was born and raised in an Asian culture has special knowledge about that specific culture. That is to say, a person born and living in Japan who studies Japanese culture and history is a much better resource about Japanese culture and history than a person born and living in the United States who studies Japanese culture and history.

I do not think you need someone of Asian ethnicity.

wtf is "special knowledge"? I was born and raised in America, I still don't consider myself an expert on American culture. it's not about "special knowlege" it's knowing the history of Orientalism and relations between East Asia and the West and how it's possible, especially at the time the book was written, that might skew whatever perspective an American author might have on Asian cultures. it's not that I was somehow bequeathed some sort of cultural enlightenment out of my heritage, it's that I was taught about my culture as just culture, not something that's "exotic" or "mystical".

 

[Immeril]

If the current depictions of Roma are offensive to current people referenced and shouldn't be promulgated because of this fact why does an earlier publication date make such depictions ok?

The earlier publication date doesn't make the depiction ok, but you suggest denying that it ever existed in the first place. Because if you remove something, with the explanation that it was insensitive, than I have no other option but to take your word for it. People should have the option to decide for themselves that a product contains dated ideas. If you truly believe that we live in a civilised society, then you should assume that people will indeed come to the conclusion that the product in question is offensive, without someone else saying that they should take their word for it.

I will say though, I find it funny how OA is both so trivial that I shouldn't worry about it being sold, but also so important that if WotC removed it from the store it'd be the worst decision they'd ever made.

Especially if fixing the 'minor problem' is super easy, there is no excuse not to fix it as quickly as possible. If OA is so irrelevant that it really doesn't matter if it remains online or not, then just take it down since you'll please a group that is too often silenced.

By this line of reasoning, we should also ban Harry Potter. Because certain people, in their own mind, have very valid reasons to be offended by these books.

It's a matter of principle. One person should never have the audacity or even the god complex to decide for others what they can or can not read. Especially if your argument is "well, these 2 works of fiction are both offensive to someone, but we'll keep the more important one".
I don't like Conan, another example of a (to current standards) problematic work of fiction that has been referenced in this thread. So in theory, if Conan were to be banned, I wouldn't be hurt by this decision. But I acknowledge that Conan is liked by, and important to, other people. And I respect that.

Part of the problem with this line of thinking is that Gygax and Arneson and others who helped create the game are no longer around to explain or defend themselves, or to apologize, where appropriate. So Blackmoor or Greyhawk are just the way they are. But Ed Greenwood and Keith Baker and Jeff Grubb and Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weiss and other setting creators are still around and can explain/defend/apologize/change/fix their creations. Why do we not see any interviews or blog posts or anything from any of them? But seriously, why are they all silent right now? Or am I just missing their comments?

Yes! We can't ask Joseph Conrad's opinion about colonialism, but we can ask Greenwood's/Baker's/...

 

[Panda-s1]

It's a matter of principle. One person should never have the audacity or even the god complex to decide for others what they can or can not read. Especially if your argument is "well, these 2 works of fiction are both offensive to someone, but we'll keep the more important one".

"God complex"? I never said no one should read it, I said WotC should stop selling it. how is that saying others shouldn't read it? keep in mind there are many intact copies that still exist in the world that can be bought online or in physical stores and pdf is fairly easy to find on the internet apart from WotC's storefront. how is me saying they should remove it from their store at all the same as saying no one should read it?

 

[Immeril]

"God complex"? I never said no one should read it, I said WotC should stop selling it. how is that saying others shouldn't read it? keep in mind there are many intact copies that still exist in the world that can be bought online or in physical stores and pdf is fairly easy to find on the internet apart from WotC's storefront. how is me saying they should remove it from their store at all the same as saying no one should read it?

As if banning the book's digital version isn't going to influence the price of the existing physical copies.
And since there isn't hardly any difference (in profit) between WotC selling it and another online store selling it: are you're suggesting that we need to resort to piracy?

 

[GreyLord]

so I kinda want to come back to this bit: who exactly are these people? who is this group of individuals who apparently comprise a large chunk of the entirety of Asian people credited in an official D&D release? maybe I'll make a new thread about this—haha jk that sounds exhausting.

without any real context we probably just believe that these 5 individuals are experts in Asian culture, though given they all have Japanese names it's more likely they are only experts in Japanese culture. so okay, maybe OA is full of some very dated ideas about East Asian culture, but at least they got help from some cultural experts.

but... who are they? I decided to google their names individually and... nothing seemed to stand out. this felt weird, only one of them, Akira Saito, has a name you might call "typical" for Japanese and unsurprisingly the top hits included a 3d modeler and motorcycle racer. it doesn't help I don't know the kanji for their names either, that would actually narrow down things a lot.

so... they're just players? now I know at least some of you already knew this, fine, but I didn't, and it's like really? some of the only Asian people to receive credit in an English language D&D product were just players? not even contributing any content or subject expertise, just "critiquing and improving the manuscript"? what exactly does that even entail?

and again, who are they? I did some digging and learned in 1985, the same year OA was published, redbox saw it's first release in Japan. maybe some of these guys were part of the nascent tabletop RPG scene in Japan. maybe they were part of Shinwa, the company who published D&D in Japan at that time. again no real leads, but then I started googling their names again and realized something: each search got a hit on DBLP. DBLP is a German bibliography website that lists academic articles about computer science. each one of those names brings up at least one article from the 1980's. at this point it's pure speculation, but I'm now under the impression they were just a gaming group at some college who were all studying computer science and were playtesters for the Japanese version of D&D.

which, more power to these guys, they got more credit than your average video game QA tester could ever hope for, and I really want to know their story and what role they might have played in D&D's release in Japan. I wish I had the connections and know how to interview them and write that article.

but in the bigger picture, it's extremely disappointing. did TSR ask them for their help because they were Japanese? was this supposed to be a concession for people like me? if they had connections in Japan did they not bother trying to get an actual expert in Japanese history and culture from Japan?

also what of this bibliography that people seem to laud because it somehow justifies the existence of this book? I can't read it (legally), but are these books by actual authors from Asia that were translated in to English, or are they just books by Western authors? if OA is considered dated, can you also imagine that some of the books they cite are also dated and might have views on Asian culture that might be problematic? can you understand how upsetting it might be that the majority of Asian people to be credited in D&D are all in one book and likely contributed no actual content to the game?

if no Asian person made any meaningful contribution to the creation of a book about Asian culture, directly or otherwise, can you at least concede that that in of itself is a little messed up?

These are excellent questions.

For those who look at Asians involved with the playing, or who knew about these players, yes, they basically were players.

OA (despite what some people think) was focused primarily on the areas of China, Korea, Japan, Mongolia (as stated on page 3's preface, openly, though the focus was more like American Stereotypes from Hollywood about Japan, then Japan, Japan, Japan, Japan, Japan, China if we look at much of the actual content of the book). The book itself has a troubled history in it's creation. Originally the focus was probably going to be a tad more towards what some may have felt like it should be and was pushed by Gary Gygax. Ensuing difficulties (which would have been better addressed by Mr. Gygax if he were still alive, with the other side of the story being addressed by Mr. Cook rather than I) caused a disruption of the original OA notes and manuscripts.

These difficulties created a very different OA than originally envisioned. It was tossed together in a much more quick manner than many would think. These were people that were players (well, at least one or two, others may have learned at the table, I don't know) and could grasp how the rules worked, and were part of the culture or heritage being discussed. Sort of how one would look at cultural consultants today. I believe there was also someone (not one of the Asian gamers) who also had a degree in some sort of Asian studies.

These players were not some Asian historical PHd's (like Mr. Kwan, though some would also say Mr. Kwan may represent Canadian Gamers well, he may not represent Asian gamers as a whole well, especially considering his focus in some of his income, though he probably also is a good individual to consult should WotC ever wish to go in the direction of OA again), but probably knew far more about their own lives and education than most Americans.

At the time there were not a LOT of people in Asia that both knew (familiar with the rules and how it worked) RPGs and D&D and were also were Asian AND available for asking questions. As it were, these individuals were around and asked to have their input. Their influence is pretty noticeable and is also one reason why, if you look through OA (1e, other OA versions really ignore any and ALL input from Asian or even ask their contributions, which is why 1e OA stands out, the same holds for many other RPG products which supposedly are about these types of subjects and topics, they never actually ask people in those cultures or nations or heritage directly) why it is probably mostly and distinctly covering a Japanese type slant on the subject rather than Chinese or Mongolian.

That said, D&D did have a small but dedicated following in Japan. Eventually Sword World and the ensuing RPG fandom around it spread a little more TTRPG gaming around the nation (japan). D&D, though with a small following had quite the impact culturally on Japan in the 80s, which one can see with the origins of things such as the original Final Fantasy (the irony being that while D&D(and of course other games such as Wizardry) had marked impact on CRPGs in Japan, eventually that has turned around to have an impact on CRPGs in the west as well as what I see as some common TTRPG ideas today.

In essence, the importance of those names is NOT because they are big names in Japan today, or some major Politicians or Professors, but because they are those that actually are from an unnoticed minority who actually made an impact on an official D&D product and are some of the ONLY times such minorities have even been acknowledged to exist, much less their contributions (and I think there have been other contributions, but generally not attributed). It's a small reminder of the D&D influence Asian gamers (or I suppose one could say Japanese for at least two of them) actually have had, though looking at the CRPG scene today it should be obvious that it's been far greater than normally acknowledged among the primarily white male populace of the TTRPG scene.

In comparison, looking at the 3e OA, or other RPGS that supposedly are centered around Asia but written in the West, you may occasionally get an Asian contributor acknowledged, but it is rare than some may realize for many games.

This does not mean there are no problems with OA (which is not what this thread is really about) but rather that there are much bigger and prevalent difficulties in modern gaming that many would prefer to be addressed and pushed to the forefront to be addressed if issues ARE to be actually considered and addressed.

 

[Panda-s1]

As if banning the book's digital version isn't going to influence the price of the existing physical copies.
And since there isn't hardly any difference (in profit) between WotC selling it and another online store selling it: are you're suggesting that we need to resort to piracy?

what part of "you can still buy a print copy" do you not understand? that's not piracy. getting a pdf is piracy but has a very different context when that item isn't officially available anymore.

These are excellent questions.

For those who look at Asians involved with the playing, or who knew about these players, yes, they basically were players.

OA (despite what some people think) was focused primarily on the areas of China, Korea, Japan, Mongolia (as stated on page 3's preface, openly, though the focus was more like American Stereotypes from Hollywood about Japan, then Japan, Japan, Japan, Japan, Japan, China if we look at much of the actual content of the book). The book itself has a troubled history in it's creation. Originally the focus was probably going to be a tad more towards what some may have felt like it should be and was pushed by Gary Gygax. Ensuing difficulties (which would have been better addressed by Mr. Gygax if he were still alive, with the other side of the story being addressed by Mr. Cook rather than I) caused a disruption of the original OA notes and manuscripts.

These difficulties created a very different OA than originally envisioned. It was tossed together in a much more quick manner than many would think. These were people that were players (well, at least one or two, others may have learned at the table, I don't know) and could grasp how the rules worked, and were part of the culture or heritage being discussed. Sort of how one would look at cultural consultants today. I believe there was also someone (not one of the Asian gamers) who also had a degree in some sort of Asian studies.

These players were not some Asian historical PHd's (like Mr. Kwan, though some would also say Mr. Kwan may represent Canadian Gamers well, he may not represent Asian gamers as a whole well, especially considering his focus in some of his income, though he probably also is a good individual to consult should WotC ever wish to go in the direction of OA again), but probably knew far more about their own lives and education than most Americans.

At the time there were not a LOT of people in Asia that both knew (familiar with the rules and how it worked) RPGs and D&D and were also were Asian AND available for asking questions. As it were, these individuals were around and asked to have their input. Their influence is pretty noticeable and is also one reason why, if you look through OA (1e, other OA versions really ignore any and ALL input from Asian or even ask their contributions, which is why 1e OA stands out, the same holds for many other RPG products which supposedly are about these types of subjects and topics, they never actually ask people in those cultures or nations or heritage directly) why it is probably mostly and distinctly covering a Japanese type slant on the subject rather than Chinese or Mongolian.

That said, D&D did have a small but dedicated following in Japan. Eventually Sword World and the ensuing RPG fandom around it spread a little more TTRPG gaming around the nation (japan). D&D, though with a small following had quite the impact culturally on Japan in the 80s, which one can see with the origins of things such as the original Final Fantasy (the irony being that while D&D(and of course other games such as Wizardry) had marked impact on CRPGs in Japan, eventually that has turned around to have an impact on CRPGs in the west as well as what I see as some common TTRPG ideas today.

In essence, the importance of those names is NOT because they are big names in Japan today, or some major Politicians or Professors, but because they are those that actually are from an unnoticed minority who actually made an impact on an official D&D product and are some of the ONLY times such minorities have even been acknowledged to exist, much less their contributions (and I think there have been other contributions, but generally not attributed). It's a small reminder of the D&D influence Asian gamers (or I suppose one could say Japanese for at least two of them) actually have had, though looking at the CRPG scene today it should be obvious that it's been far greater than normally acknowledged among the primarily white male populace of the TTRPG scene.

In comparison, looking at the 3e OA, or other RPGS that supposedly are centered around Asia but written in the West, you may occasionally get an Asian contributor acknowledged, but it is rare than some may realize for many games.

This does not mean there are no problems with OA (which is not what this thread is really about) but rather that there are much bigger and prevalent difficulties in modern gaming that many would prefer to be addressed and pushed to the forefront to be addressed if issues ARE to be actually considered and addressed.

aw geez, you post all this and of course I only read it after I make a separate thread. I was simply curious about who these people were and shocked when I found out they weren't even content creators or expert consultants. and yeah, I know a lot of people in Asia didn't know about RPGs at the time, but also there were Asian people living in the US! we've been here for nearly two centuries, it's not like TSR couldn't get a hold of some Asian American gamers and ask how they felt about the book. even if there likely weren't many at the time it's hard to imagine no Asian American person would be interested enough in games to try out D&D. also given the nature of OA as a setting book you can get meaningful consultation from experts, Asian or otherwise, in America. but... yeah okay, that does shed a bit more light about what went down, and while I don't fully trust Gary to make OA completely unproblematic if he was the real driver in getting input from Asian gamers I could imagine his version would have been a little more nuanced than "Japaaaaaaaaaaaaaan". that being said it's still find it sad that this is the context where the few Asian people get credited in a D&D product.

also yeah, I know a little about the influence of D&D in Japan, in the new thread (with Expanded Content™ O: ) I do bring up stuff like Lodoss War and Final Fantasy, but I just want to know more, like what was that culture like at the time, and what important gaming people now were totally into D&D? the only western non-D&D RPG to have influence that I know of is apparently Call of Cthulhu. Gen Urobuchi and a few other writers got into Lovecraft because they played that game, but that's the extent of my knowledge lol.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

"If it isn't my speaking truth to power, it isn't speaking truth to power"?

Sarcasm seems to be your truth?

The point is that it is easy to say, today, "Hey, racism is bad." You can make it all fancy-like with jargon, but it's not exactly Profiles in Courage time.

It's a lot harder to speak out with a really unpopular opinion that will cost you your job, or possibly your life.

So, of course, all that freedom of speech stuff is only marginally relevant - the rights we have are about government control, not about the public marketplace of ideas. Charlaquin is not a government official. He cannot remove your freedom of speech. I can only restrict your access to one very specific platform - I cannot really impinge on your free speech - you can speak on any other platform around. And your rights are not "the right to speak on any platform of my choice."

And, in all of this... folks seem to forget that WotC has a freedom too. And that isn't "freedom to keep all their stuff in print". It is a freedom to print what they want... and not print what they don't want to. There is no fundamental difference in individuals saying "WotC should remove this product" and individuals saying, 'WotC should not remove this product".

This is facile and offensive. You are familiar with the phrase, "You can beat the charge, but you can't beat the ride," right?

So I assume when someone says that to you in the context of issues with the police, your response is, "Well, that doesn't really matter, because all of that 'due process' stuff matters when you are brought before a court, so as long as the police get you in fromt of a judge, eventually, it's fine that they arrested you without cause knowing that you'd have to spend the weekend in jail ... and now you've lost your job. Nothing to see here!"

I already said that I fully understand the difference at play here, so you trying to once again forumsplain this to me is not well taken. There is a distinction between de facto and de jure.

Or, as I said, and as you completely ignored, that there were real consequences if you lived in a place and tried to assist same-sex couples adopt when that was against the law; or trans people attend the high school prom. This, and so much more, was not just censored by de jure government regulation, but by de facto repercussions within the community. It wasn't just hard to be gay or trans because of government censorship, you know. And it wasn't hard to find positive role models ... because of government censorship. And the repercussion you would feel weren't from da gummint- it was from your supposed friends, your family, and your neighbors.

Which is why (again, ignoring the points that I actually made) even though there was no de jure laws keeping representation of gay and trans individuals (or even representations of other areas of diversity) there was de facto censorship that kept this representation out of, inter alia, TTRPGs.

So to bend it around to my original point, the principle of free speech (which is not just an issue of the Bill of Rights in America, but a bona fide principle that has applications outside of the narrow application in Constitutional law) which is something that has allowed progress and representations that I want and believe in, is not something I will lightly discard when it is convenient, despite your condescension.

 

[GreyLord]

It might be more complete to say they'd make it happen if the money and resources were there. They have a budget, and a set of personnel with particular skills and only 24 hours in a day, and that only goes so far - they have to pick and choose projects.

So, "if the money is there," can be a little bit deceiving. They may know that there's money to be had, but not have the resources to expend on getting it, or it gets beat out by something with a marginally larger expected profit, and so on.

I think they understand this. It's just one thing that they'd like addressed to make it easier.

I've seen requests for translations of the PHB for them to get players (normally whom English is a second language, a LOT of people know English, but it isn't their primary language) who have an easier time reading their native language into playing D&D.

They DO have some people (and it's amazing how much time people have invested into these) that have done their own translations of D&D books. Commonly individuals who want a translation are pointed in the direction of one of these. I think, there is still a queasy feeling that this is somewhat like piracy though, even though a relevant material in the language isn't available in some of the areas they are asking for it. [Adding edit: To be clear, there may be official translations out there as I've seen mention there may be in this thread, this was just something that was brought up to me when asking]

There has been some suggestions at times for them to just find groups or go to CONS to learn from others, and I know there are many Asian players that go to CONS. Of the ones I play with, none of them go. Of those that have in the past, I will say 100% of them that attended them in the US ran into issues of my original post pertaining to points #1 and #2 (reasons I suppose for them not to go anymore). Thus, it seems most of them would rather introduce players more in home games rather than public ones or online from what I gather.

I think they understand the issue of costs and resource allocation. It's not beneficial to sink in the money compared to the sales. It's just that if one was considering issues of modern gamers, it's one that pops up as something they would like.

In that light, regarding the entire OA issue...

OA 1e (and frankly, even 3e) are minute enough that most of the RPG audience today aren't using them, and thus other things are of more concern from what I gather. It doesn't mean they are problem free, but that their impact is so small compared to the other issues I mentioned that bigger issues would be preferred to be taken head on first.

Even if it is a cost/benefit item, it is a higher priority listed item for those I know currently playing the game than addressing a book from over 30 years ago. It isn't to say there aren't problems with it, but even something that they understand with the cost/benefit difficulties (and they have no illusions that they will have all the translations they are looking for to be officially released), it is of a higher interest and concern to them in general. Probably due to relevance with their current gaming and current gaming groups (and the games they are currently playing.

 

[GreyLord]

what part of "you can still buy a print copy" do you not understand? that's not piracy. getting a pdf is piracy but has a very different context when that item isn't officially available anymore.

aw geez, you post all this and of course I only read it after I make a separate thread. I was simply curious about who these people were and shocked when I found out they weren't even content creators or expert consultants. and yeah, I know a lot of people in Asia didn't know about RPGs at the time, but also there were Asian people living in the US! we've been here for nearly two centuries, it's not like TSR couldn't get a hold of some Asian American gamers and ask how they felt about the book. even if there likely weren't many at the time it's hard to imagine no Asian American person would be interested enough in games to try out D&D. also given the nature of OA as a setting book you can get meaningful consultation from experts, Asian or otherwise, in America. but... yeah okay, that does shed a bit more light about what went down, and while I don't fully trust Gary to make OA completely unproblematic if he was the real driver in getting input from Asian gamers I could imagine his version would have been a little more nuanced than "Japaaaaaaaaaaaaaan". that being said it's still find it sad that this is the context where the few Asian people get credited in a D&D product.

also yeah, I know a little about the influence of D&D in Japan, in the new thread (with Expanded Content™ O: ) I do bring up stuff like Lodoss War and Final Fantasy, but I just want to know more, like what was that culture like at the time, and what important gaming people now were totally into D&D? the only western non-D&D RPG to have influence that I know of is apparently Call of Cthulhu. Gen Urobuchi and a few other writers got into Lovecraft because they played that game, but that's the extent of my knowledge lol.

I think the aim was more to try to get an actual Asian view of things rather than American. That's just my take (as I said, the real experts would be Mr. Gygax who is, unfortunately no longer available, and Mr Cook. In essence, much of what Ggyax had planned got tossed and what we now have for OA was put together hastily by Mr. Cook. The degree of what he used from Ggyax is debatable, and some say he used a LOT while others say he used almost none of it).

I think some of the original plan was to have more Chinese information and influence on the Book than what came out with Mr. Cook, but again, as I said, Mr. Cook is the one to probably ask more questions about that.

Regarding Japanese culture at the time, I'm not sure I am qualified to actually truthfully say it how it was. I can talk about it as an OUTSIDER, and form an OUTSIDER's PERSPECTIVE, but that is going to be entirely biased and not quite what one wants to probably hear. That said, I can give a small bit of it, but understand it is NOT from a Japanese perspective, but someone from the West with all the incumbent biases and fallibilities that go with it.

The influence on D&D was small in the 80s. It was there, but it was not like it was in the West IN MY OPINION. Most of my time wasn't even spent in Japan, it was spent in the West. There was a small but fanatical group of gamers there. Now, Games were not really seen as adult occupations (nor were cartoons, or what we know as anime in the West, and manga wasn't really an adult thing either). Adults were expected to do adult things, and games were not really seen as that. If you did play games it would be doing things seen as respectable such as going golfing with your boss or peers, going to the baseball games with the company, etc, or ensuring your family had the best things in life and were comfortable.

In many ways it was even more conservative in it's outlooks and customs than the US (without the Christian influences being as strong, obviously).

A LOT of those playing RPGS though were young, and as they were young and upcoming, they used their enthusiasm in things that they were creating and things they started up. Thus, in new areas such as video games where younger individuals were the ones at the forefront, you see them inputting a LOT of this D&D influence (and D&D was a MAJOR influence, it was not the ONLY influence, you also have Wizardry and a few other things being strong influences on their creations of CRPGS and computer games at the time). You could say, though small, this group of players created the foundation for modern entertainment (at least children's entertainment) today. It's a different mixture of D&D influence with Japanese influence, which you can see in things from Yu-Gi-Oh, to other forms of entertainment in their manga and even toys.

So, while small, I'd say they had a rather LARGE influence of the future (which is today).

In my unqualified thought on the matter.