D&D General (Anecdotal) conversations with Asian gamers on some problems they currently face in the D&D world of RPG gaming

[Todd Roybark]

On the other hand, I have repeatedly seen people, like @Neonchameleon , who supposedly knew better than the rest of us,

The moral of this could be, if one is posting while late, maybe hold off posting until time has passed. One tired misstep, and you might loose the high ground.

I include myself, in this.

In the spirit of comity, can we as ENworld, use our action to Disengage, (as their are no Rogues here who disengage on a bonus action), and perhaps enjoy one of the other threads available?....before harsh words are written that can not be undone

The DM Guild website has a disclaimer. Perhaps change the titles of the two Oriental Adventure books...to Kara-Tur Adventures and Rokugan Adventures...books being published under different titles has a hoary past.

Peace Everyone.

 

[Bagpuss]

sounds like the solution here is, unless you have a very good reason, to not ask people where they're from.

Yeah that's not a solution as mentioned in the post, some people get offended if you assume they are from a different region, and you can't find out where they are actual from without asking. Also most people have a genuine interested where other people they meet come from, so are going to ask.

OP is talking about how a lot of Asian people will get asked where they're from apropos of nothing other than the fact they look Asian.

No the OP was talking about them being asked on going to conventions and game stores. People visit conventions (and even game stores to a lesser extent) from all over, it's pretty common to ask someone you meet in those situations where they are from as part of conversation.

 

[Immeril]

So mustaches can be drawn on the Mona Lisa? But I thought that OA was art that should be preserved for the sake of posterity? This is one reason among many why I'm not terribly convinced about the authenticity of people complaining about censorship because it's okay for WotC to self-censor themselves by rewriting the text. And there is virtually no outrage about preserving the "history of the game" or the "original text as written" when it comes to CoS and ToA. Silence. Crickets.

Do I really need to debase myself to the level of giving you the drawing of a timeline? OA was published in 1985, CoS in 2016, ToA in 2017. The last 2 are still part of WotC's current organised play.
So you expect me to answer to your comparison between La Gioconda and OA, while you yourself fail to answer mine between OA and Tolkien (who isn't in the public domain)?

Regardless of what you stated, I am asking your opinion about how the general trend regarding discussion has gone from largely denying any racism to adopting a discourse that attempts to relativize the racism.

My personal opinion about this is irrelevant, since I already stated (again, post #8) that even books such as Mein Kampf should be available. So even a written statement from Zeb, wherein he admits that OA is racist, still wouldn't change my opinion on this matter.

If that is truly the most compelling argument one can muster, then the Titanic is already sinking.

And yet I'm still waiting for you to offer a more compelling alternative.

Going back through the conversation from the point where you bring up Bram Stoker's Dracula (and posts before that), that does not appear to be the case as you were responding to @Undrave (and @Umbran) regarding accessibility and public entitlement to written works. So why are you shifting the goal posts now and framing this discussion about what is "better"?

Because you as well as others disregard the difference between public domain (meaning widely and often freely available) and copyright when you propose to ban OA (but suggesting that we could still buy a physical copy). And when users like Snarf Zagyg posit that a lot of works (even in the public domain) contain offensive ideas, someone like Neonchameleon starts reasoning that some works should remain while others shouldn't (even though one could argue that they all contain some form of offensive content), that OA should be removed but Star Trek TOS should remain. Since you don't listen to my arguments against banning any work, I'm posing counterarguments derived from your own flawed reasoning. So, again: does a publisher have a moral obligation to stop spreading offensive content, even if it is part of the public domain?

 

[Myrdin Potter]

Yuan-ti and lizardfolk came to my mind almost immediately.

Yuan-ti always were associated with Egypt in my mind because of Conan stories and Set and the snake people (and Kull). I don’t see such a direct connection more than that mental association, though.

What is the association with a non-western culture that lizardfolk have? Hobgoblins has clear Japanese armor in the AD&D monster manual. Lizardfolk don’t have anything that I see in the art as clearly non-western.

 

[Panda-s1]

Yeah that's not a solution as mentioned in the post, some people get offended if you assume they are from a different region, and you can't find out where they are actual from without asking. Also most people have a genuine interested where other people they meet come from, so are going to ask.

okay, that doesn't mean you should always ask this question with no tact.

No the OP was talking about them being asked on going to conventions and game stores. People visit conventions (and even game stores to a lesser extent) from all over, it's pretty common to ask someone you meet in those situations where they are from as part of conversation.

yes, and you conveniently miss out the part where they then get asked "where are you really from?" also it honestly doesn't matter, the context of gaming store and convention was given because that's the context of this larger conversation, but it still follows that it's rude and alienating for some people to be asked this no matter what your situation is.

 

[Sadras]

Actually, this principle is similar to elsewhere. If one is making a movie where the villain is black, make sure there is also a prominent good guy who is also black. The same goes for any identity.

So Die Hard would have been a better less offensive film if there was a good German in it?

 

[Neonchameleon]

someone like Neonchameleon starts reasoning that some works should remain while others shouldn't

Objection - strawman. I've never said anything close to that.

A work in the public domain should always remain there - but critiques are important uses of speech as well and ones that should be embraced by free-speech advocates. The ones who go full "I may not like what you have to say but will defend to the death your right to say it" should defend calls for banning while opposing actual banning.

 

[Bagpuss]

yes, and you conveniently miss out the part where they then get asked "where are you really from?"

That was literally the last line of my first post that you replied to. Talk about conveniently missing stuff out.

 

[Eric V]

Thank you for admitting you don't actually have an understanding of the effects of racism.

You know, it's quite possible they don't. I have been assuming a certain level of belligerence, but the simpler answer could be what you outlined above. :/

 

[Bedrockgames]

So these people get to be people who are sending a positive message without being depicted negatively as a "pressure group"? Don't look now, but your double-standards are showing.

I don't think these are the same thing, and I don't think the tactic is the same either. One group is demanding that WOTC take down a product and telling everyone WOTC is terrible for not taking down the product, the other group is giving WOTC their money to show that they like the product and want to keep it up. I think it is a positive thing, when people are trying to get media or art taken down, when others stand up in support of that media remaining available. There is a big difference between a small group trying to get something removed, and people saying that group shouldn't' get to decide for everyone else whether or not the content is available. There is simply a difference between trying to stop speech and trying to preserve speech