Angel. Jumped the shark?

[Holy Bovine]

Well, I know I really enjoyed the first episode (after avoiding both Buffy & Angel in their entirely ) of this season and I really liekd the one with the Necromancer. Spike seems to be a good foil for the other characters as he constantly questions thier motives and actions. If this season can actually get me to watch on a regular basis it must be doing something right (and yes I did try to watch before but just couldn't stand some of the writing)

 

[LightPhoenix]

Spike is a mistake but he has a high Q rating so it does not hurt the show overall, it is that he does not fit the nature of the show.

I could go on a whole rant on how ratings and test audiences have destroyed television. I'd rather just point out HBO's series, because to my knowledge HBO uses a very minimal amount of ratings data. And while they're not all perfect, most of them are better than a lot of jreck on cable or the major networks.

1) Spike joins the cast. Don't get me wrong. I love James Marsters and Spike, but the chemistry feels all wrong. He's flopping around like a fish out of water. And the infusion of a popular character from one show to the spin off is never a good sign (Worf, anyone?).

2) Harmony. Nuff said

3) Gunn is a lawyer now. I have no problem with ditching the "inner city bad-ass" act. But instant lawer? That's just fudged up.

4) Wesley's all better. No Fred problems. No Gunn problems. The conflict vacuum strikes again.

1) I'm beginning to agree. I was already worried the writers would start to make Spike dominate the show. But I thought Worf was a pretty good addition to DS9, once they figured out how to use him. I don't think the Angel team has done that yet. More depressingly, if anyone watched the series Invisible Man on Sci-Fi, the forced addition of a character screwed up the chemistry so badly on the show it got cancelled.

2) Again, I concur.

3) Here's where I disagree. Gunn always had the cockiness, even when it was just a front to mask his feelings of ineffectiveness last season. These feelings were not unfounded. He really didn't have any place in the old group, except as the normal guy amongst above average guys. Sort of like Xander in Buffy, from what I could tell. Except Gunn didn't have a bunch of good lines.

4) I think the fact that Wesley is completely over everything that's happened is an issue in and of itself. I hope they follow through with this. On the other hand, Wesley was a rebound for Fred, and he probably knew it. No sense in dwelling on it. I imagine that Gunn and Wesley don't have the friendship they had before, but they had to work together, and they did. I think that helped mend some of the rift between the two.

 

[CCamfield]

I think it's far too early to make that call. I am probably someone biased because I'm a big fan of Spike. But I'm liking the show so far.

I think LP's comment about Gunn is pretty on the mark. He was definitely feeling "odd man out" and this forced change does give him a new role. It may be weird, but one can hardly say it's not believable considering he made some sort of faustian deal in a world with real demons and magic to get it...

 

[takyris]

Ditto that. I like Gunn's new look -- it's not as thought it wasn't foreshadowed. A large part of last season was him feeling frustrated because Angel was tougher, Wesley had more arcane knowledge, Fred knew more science, and Lorne had more contacts. Gunn's street knowledge was no longer helpful, they were fighting things far beyond his ability to hurt, and he really had no useful role as part of the team.

I also like Spike in general, and am interested in seeing how they make him different from Angel.

Was suspicious of Harmony, but she won me over in the first episode. It's important for Joss to have one clueless and faintly antisocial person in the group, just to let him toss out those wonderful one-liners. Buffy had Anya, Firefly had Jayne... it's tradition. And Joss always ends up humanizing them eventually, letting your expectations that the character was just there for comedy lead you into being surprised when you find yourself feeling sorry for them after some plot twist.

 

[KnowTheToe]

This could very well be the Shark tank season. I will give it a few more episodes because Joss & crew have often surpised me in the past. Spike does not belong, but has been better than I thought possible. Harmony is comedy relief, and that is fine, for a short period of time. She can't grow as a character so she can only get a very small amount of screen time. Wess, my favorite character has been non exisistant and Angel the star has had smaller roles than Fred.

 

[takyris]

This could very well be the Shark tank season.

Agree, of course. It could ALWAYS be Shark Tank season.

Harmony is comedy relief, and that is fine, for a short period of time. She can't grow as a character so she can only get a very small amount of screen time.

Just like a comic-relief former vengeance demon can't grow? Or the Big Bad from Buffy's Second Season, the blond vampire guy who later got replaced by Angel? What was his name again? Heck, Jayne from Firefly went from a comical antagonist to a flawed hero in one line, when (thinking that Mal is gonna space him after he betrayed the crew) he asks Mal to lie to the others about how he died, because he doesn't want 'em to know the truth. Watching Jayne learn to be ashamed of himself was fantastic. Joss can do it in the unlikeliest places.

Wess, my favorite character has been non exisistant and Angel the star has had smaller roles than Fred.

Ditto on Wes -- I like his character arc (with personal mixed feelings about parts of last season), and I'm ready to see more. As for Angel getting less time... I personally like giving other people starring roles for individual episodes. It's a nice change of pace.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I think it's far too early to make that call. I am probably someone biased because I'm a big fan of Spike. But I'm liking the show so far.

I think LP's comment about Gunn is pretty on the mark. He was definitely feeling "odd man out" and this forced change does give him a new role. It may be weird, but one can hardly say it's not believable considering he made some sort of faustian deal in a world with real demons and magic to get it...

I think the problem with Gunn was that he really got lost a a character once he joined the gang. I'm watching some of the old stuff, and he really was different when he was first introduced. Last season he seemed more like Thug #3 than a real character.

Wes has really undergone an evolution, but then he seems to have been forgotten. I think Whedon & Crew don't know how to keep the focus on the group, which has grown too large for their abilities. So Wes suffers.

I just don't understand why Lorne is a group member. Perhaps it will come to me while watching old eps, but he really seems more fit as a regular NPC than a Core Group PC.

And, Fred. She's not unattractive, but she's not so hot that every guy has to fall for her. It's gotten tedious that everyone seems drawn to her. Hopefully they reveal that she's some evil succubus that is using magical powers or something, that'd be fun.

Angel & Buffy's love was supposed to be teh once in a lifetime thing. It was supposed to be so special that the fact they couldn't be togethor was soul wrenching.
Angel/Cordelia minimized that, Spike./ Buffy didn't as much, because Buffy made it clear that Spike wasn' her true love. Spike/ Fred minimizes Spike's attraction to Buffy for me though.

Spike & Angel were great on the last ep's of Buffy. They haven't had the same level of interaction on Angel though. Hopefully soon.

 

[Ranger REG]

WAY too early for me to make the "Jumped the Shark" call. There is sure to be a little letdown after the rollercoaster that was last season (one of the best season's of TV I've ever seen). The best is yet to come. All Joss shows have a history of being good in the first half of the season and great in the second. Say what you will about Season 7 of Buffy but the man has been successful more often than not. He ain't perfect but he has delivered time and time again.

I agree. Although after that heavy "apocalypse" arc (not to mentioned the weirded-out love triangle ... I still cannot shake the fact that one day Cordy is changing Conner's diapers, and the next day she done the booty call with him), I think they want to take on a much lighter tone this time around, at least for the first half of this season.

As for Spike, I think many of the Buffy fans who watched the ending of that series may jump channel to watch Buffy's exes for more exciting stories, with or without any more of the Scooby Gang. After all, Angel is the first Buffy spin-off.

 

[RangerWickett]

Well, I enjoyed today's show. It's almost as if the cast and writers read this thread a few months ago and wrote this episode as a counterattack.

Some of the jokes were really fresh. As demeaning as it was, the whole peeing in the office thing turned from gross to funny-and-gross. Good stuff, overall.

 

[Tauric]

Mini Hijack: LightPhoenix, who was introduced on Invisible Man that screwed up the chemistry? I loved that show, but missed the last bunch of episodes (which I didn't know were going to be the last episodes).

To make this post relevant, my wife thinks Angel has jumped, but I don't. I, like so many others, am waiting for the other shoe to drop, vis a vis Gunn.

The one complaint I have is Eve. I just don't think she has any spark. Also, as an alumnus of UC Santa Cruz, I don't believe a graduate would work for W&H, but I do believe in the sex under mystical influence could have happened.