Anti-Grapple Tactics
- Thread starter Paederon
- Start date
Jeremy
Explorer
Does he provoke an attack of opportunity when starting the grapple?
I ask because there is a very important detail I missed at first in the grappling rules about that. If the attack of opportunity hits, it stops the grapple.
"I reach to grab you."
"I smack you for 12 damage knocking your arms away."
"You can do that? Yup. It's in the PHB. If I hit, no grapple."
But first and foremost I agree with the previous posters, don't eliminate your PC's focuses or strengths, that's what they have fun with. If he always grapples your spellcasters, have two spellcasters so he can take one out and feel he's accomplished something and is contributing and you can still have one caster active to challenge the party.
Or use mirror image.
I ask because there is a very important detail I missed at first in the grappling rules about that. If the attack of opportunity hits, it stops the grapple.
"I reach to grab you."
"I smack you for 12 damage knocking your arms away."
"You can do that? Yup. It's in the PHB. If I hit, no grapple."
But first and foremost I agree with the previous posters, don't eliminate your PC's focuses or strengths, that's what they have fun with. If he always grapples your spellcasters, have two spellcasters so he can take one out and feel he's accomplished something and is contributing and you can still have one caster active to challenge the party.
Or use mirror image.
Teflon Billy
Explorer
Paederon said:
If that AoO hits, the grapple doesn't work. Is his AC that high?
Ralts Bloodthorne
First Post
Good player, first of all, but I can understand your fustration. I had the same problem for awhile, since we did the rule on neck breaking.
Anyway, he seems to mainly target mages. Now, this would get around.
"I'm positive, Shim, that's the Fist Brother who busted up Gortun so bad the other month. Ya, him."-Overheard in the market.
Mages are not going to stand for this for too long, after all, they can't have thier reputations being tarnished by some shaved ape who finally learned how to make a fist.
So, the evil fighers line up with "hold the line" and the monk springs off the 1/2Orc barbarian's shoulder, bounces off a shield, and launches himself at the mage, barely coherent thoughts of physical violence filling his tiny little mind.
Herein is your problem. He's rushing the mage. OK, that incurs attacks of opportunity from everyone he just went by.
X-mage
Y Y Y Y Y (Evil Fighters)
M (Monk)
So monk leaps through. He encounters attacks of opportunity from the THREE middle fighters. Middle fighter performs Improved Trip, fighter #2 does Crippling Strike (ala Song and Silence) and fighter #3 takes a 5' backwards step to protect the mage, and performs a knockback attempt on the monk, knocking the sap right back into the fighters.
Solution #2
Evil Cleric, working with Evil Mage, sees the charging monk, who is drooling on himself with the thoughts of laying his hands on another mage, and casts BLADE BARRIER!!! Now the mage has Ironguard up, so the metal just whistles right through him. If the monk chooses to engage, he can eat 20d6 per round. And let him go for the Cleric, who is wearing spiked armor, that has a magical property of oozing venom.
Solution #3
Mage recieves an attack of opportunity.
DIG spell. Look, Monk in a pit! Throw in a pebble and cast Enlarge.
Solution #4
Illusionary mage, the mage covering a portable hole. Monk falls in, mage wraps him up, carries him back to his lab, and makes him into an interesting coffee table.
Solution #5
Mage is a sicko, into REALLY extreme body piercing, and is specialized in touch attack spells. A hug from said masochist will inflict 2d4 points of damage per round, and the mage is a mute, so takes no penalties for not speaking while he casts.
Solution #6
Mage uses his attack of opportunity to throw cayun pepper in the monks face and runs, with his boots of striding and springing!
Another fun thing to try to grapple is:
A bag full of green slime!
Hope that helps.
Anyway, he seems to mainly target mages. Now, this would get around.
"I'm positive, Shim, that's the Fist Brother who busted up Gortun so bad the other month. Ya, him."-Overheard in the market.
Mages are not going to stand for this for too long, after all, they can't have thier reputations being tarnished by some shaved ape who finally learned how to make a fist.
So, the evil fighers line up with "hold the line" and the monk springs off the 1/2Orc barbarian's shoulder, bounces off a shield, and launches himself at the mage, barely coherent thoughts of physical violence filling his tiny little mind.
Herein is your problem. He's rushing the mage. OK, that incurs attacks of opportunity from everyone he just went by.
X-mage
Y Y Y Y Y (Evil Fighters)
M (Monk)
So monk leaps through. He encounters attacks of opportunity from the THREE middle fighters. Middle fighter performs Improved Trip, fighter #2 does Crippling Strike (ala Song and Silence) and fighter #3 takes a 5' backwards step to protect the mage, and performs a knockback attempt on the monk, knocking the sap right back into the fighters.
Solution #2
Evil Cleric, working with Evil Mage, sees the charging monk, who is drooling on himself with the thoughts of laying his hands on another mage, and casts BLADE BARRIER!!! Now the mage has Ironguard up, so the metal just whistles right through him. If the monk chooses to engage, he can eat 20d6 per round. And let him go for the Cleric, who is wearing spiked armor, that has a magical property of oozing venom.
Solution #3
Mage recieves an attack of opportunity.
DIG spell. Look, Monk in a pit! Throw in a pebble and cast Enlarge.
Solution #4
Illusionary mage, the mage covering a portable hole. Monk falls in, mage wraps him up, carries him back to his lab, and makes him into an interesting coffee table.
Solution #5
Mage is a sicko, into REALLY extreme body piercing, and is specialized in touch attack spells. A hug from said masochist will inflict 2d4 points of damage per round, and the mage is a mute, so takes no penalties for not speaking while he casts.
Solution #6
Mage uses his attack of opportunity to throw cayun pepper in the monks face and runs, with his boots of striding and springing!
Another fun thing to try to grapple is:
A bag full of green slime!
Hope that helps.
Dog Faced God
First Post
Warlord Ralts said:
The only thing you can do with an attack of opportunity is make one melee attack. No casting spells, no 5' steps, nothing but a single melee attack.
Aside from that, these are good ideas.
This scenario is one of the things that Monks actually are good at when they get to high enough levels to move fast (and the spellcasters are of high enough level that they are still a threat after 3 rounds. ;-)
Setting up defensive lines of Fighters doesnt help, because the Monk usually has a very high Tumble (and he still gets through even if he gets unlucky and gets hit). AoA doesnt help much because a Monk has a naturally high AC and he's facing down a Wizard with probably pathetic melee skills.
I'd rate the ideas given in the order I'd fear them as a Monk:
First, the Illithid is a wicked idea even without some sort of illusion (what sort of Illithid would cast an illusion in hopes of snaring a Monk? No, he'd just stand there in all of his tentacle-faced glory and cast spells. Its still the Monks job to take care of the Spellcasters.)
Next up are the corporeal level drainers like the Succubus. At least the Monk knows not to grapple the incorporeal undead; he wont find out about the Succubus until its too late.
Last up (though still quite dangerous) is the bodyguard who is guarding the Spellcaster. It actually should take a while for the Monk to kill of the grappled Spellcaster; the Monk cant really afford to have anyone else join the fray while he is occupied. Having the bodyguard be something like a Troll is just icing on the cake; probably overkill. (But fun nonetheless!)
Setting up defensive lines of Fighters doesnt help, because the Monk usually has a very high Tumble (and he still gets through even if he gets unlucky and gets hit). AoA doesnt help much because a Monk has a naturally high AC and he's facing down a Wizard with probably pathetic melee skills.
I'd rate the ideas given in the order I'd fear them as a Monk:
First, the Illithid is a wicked idea even without some sort of illusion (what sort of Illithid would cast an illusion in hopes of snaring a Monk? No, he'd just stand there in all of his tentacle-faced glory and cast spells. Its still the Monks job to take care of the Spellcasters.)
Next up are the corporeal level drainers like the Succubus. At least the Monk knows not to grapple the incorporeal undead; he wont find out about the Succubus until its too late.
Last up (though still quite dangerous) is the bodyguard who is guarding the Spellcaster. It actually should take a while for the Monk to kill of the grappled Spellcaster; the Monk cant really afford to have anyone else join the fray while he is occupied. Having the bodyguard be something like a Troll is just icing on the cake; probably overkill. (But fun nonetheless!)
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