I did not mean it as a way to stop character development. I just planned it to stop the outlying cases, where a player cannot provide a better justification than "just cuz". I am fine with the standard use of inspiration, rewarding X, but not rewarding Y. I just thought I might want something to punish Z, if that makes sense. Reward white(or black depending on your alignment/character) let gray slide, but punish the opposite of X, unless the player can give a believable reason for why they did Z.
D&D 5E Anti-insperation
- Thread starter Lanliss
- Start date
iserith
Magic Wordsmith
On that basis, my suggestion would be to drill down on exactly what you find objectionable. If anything the players are doing makes the game less fun for you or anyone else or is not helping to create an exciting, memorable story, then I would suggest that you just tell the players the issue (give examples) and work with them to find a compromise. It indeed sounds like you're trying to deal with outliers or odd cases and I think those sorts of things are worthy of dealing with directly rather than trying to come up with a mechanic for the times they do come up.
ExploderWizard
Hero
In the case of a cleric things are easy. Loss of all access to spells and channel divinity powers until suitable atonement is made. Atonement for such an evil act performed with free will from a LG cleric should involve a dangerous quest and perhaps the sacrifice of his/her most prized magic item or suitable wealth.
Non-clerics who commit such acts still have to contend with the consequences of their actions but if they aren't particularly pious there may not be any immediate divine retribution. If there was a deity in your world that looked over orphans/ the weak & helpless then they may exact revenge through more subtle means. They may grant visions of the character's terrible act to those with the desire and the means to exact punishment for it.
steeldragons
Steeliest of the dragons
Well, specifically for the example at hand... as all of these kinds of things must be case-by-case...
A LG cleric who burned down an orphanage.
Was the orphanage filled with undead/vampiric/ghoul/zombie children? Then it's fine.
If the orphanage was housing some great evil, but all of the normal innocent children and staff had been evacuatede? Fine. It's a buildingit can be rebuilt. Destorying the evil in the fire is what was more important. The LG character could/might very well EARN some inspiration by sticking aorund and assisting, either in coin or labor if not both, in rebuilding the orphanage.
If they just burned down an orphanage (or tavern or castle or, doesn't really matter what the building is) with Innocent people (whether they are good or not is equally immaterial, as long as they're innocent) in it? Then I'd say "anti-inspiration" is the least of this character's problems. Lowkey is correct, however, that the onus is on the DM to handle this, not the other players.
Immediate and possibly irreversible, channeling divinity, and (in 5e) Divine Interference are completely and immediately off the table. Healing spells? Hell, I'd say ALL spellcasting goes unanswered until some form of atonement is made...and even then, they can have some 1st level spells until I have seen they are serious.
This, of course, comes with an immediate and permanent until proven otherwise alignment shift out of LG to...N...unless, of course, it was sheer psychopathy in which case, do not pass go and go directly CE...which, in itself, may mean the cleric NEVER gets their magic back if they can't return themselves (many months if not years of RP time showing consistent behavioral standards and multiple atonement spells and/or serious, risky, nigh impossible quests) to a stable LG alignment. Otherwise, more likely, the player will say, fine, f**this, I'll get a Neutral Deity...and, basically, only a CN deity will want someone who goes around torching orphanages, and/or any Evil deity is going to be interested in taking up a fallen/former LG soul.
Doling out "anti-inspiration"...not really a thing, nor a player's place. If a LG cleric burned down an orphanage with innocent children in it and deaths occurred, and there was no big evil thing that was stopped in the process...like major, HUGE evil thing...completely destroyed/stopped...the DM should [had better] come down like a divine hammer of wrath and judgement on this pathetic mortal's body and soul.
If you're going to use alignment in the game, then it damn well better be USED! And something like this? Immediate DM-originating change to that cleric's character sheet and whole world.
A LG cleric who burned down an orphanage.
Was the orphanage filled with undead/vampiric/ghoul/zombie children? Then it's fine.
If the orphanage was housing some great evil, but all of the normal innocent children and staff had been evacuatede? Fine. It's a buildingit can be rebuilt. Destorying the evil in the fire is what was more important. The LG character could/might very well EARN some inspiration by sticking aorund and assisting, either in coin or labor if not both, in rebuilding the orphanage.
If they just burned down an orphanage (or tavern or castle or, doesn't really matter what the building is) with Innocent people (whether they are good or not is equally immaterial, as long as they're innocent) in it? Then I'd say "anti-inspiration" is the least of this character's problems. Lowkey is correct, however, that the onus is on the DM to handle this, not the other players.
Immediate and possibly irreversible, channeling divinity, and (in 5e) Divine Interference are completely and immediately off the table. Healing spells? Hell, I'd say ALL spellcasting goes unanswered until some form of atonement is made...and even then, they can have some 1st level spells until I have seen they are serious.
This, of course, comes with an immediate and permanent until proven otherwise alignment shift out of LG to...N...unless, of course, it was sheer psychopathy in which case, do not pass go and go directly CE...which, in itself, may mean the cleric NEVER gets their magic back if they can't return themselves (many months if not years of RP time showing consistent behavioral standards and multiple atonement spells and/or serious, risky, nigh impossible quests) to a stable LG alignment. Otherwise, more likely, the player will say, fine, f**this, I'll get a Neutral Deity...and, basically, only a CN deity will want someone who goes around torching orphanages, and/or any Evil deity is going to be interested in taking up a fallen/former LG soul.
Doling out "anti-inspiration"...not really a thing, nor a player's place. If a LG cleric burned down an orphanage with innocent children in it and deaths occurred, and there was no big evil thing that was stopped in the process...like major, HUGE evil thing...completely destroyed/stopped...the DM should [had better] come down like a divine hammer of wrath and judgement on this pathetic mortal's body and soul.
If you're going to use alignment in the game, then it damn well better be USED! And something like this? Immediate DM-originating change to that cleric's character sheet and whole world.
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GMforPowergamers
Legend
I am against it... I do not support this idea...
having said that there are systems like it in other games. In Classic Deadlands there is a big pot of poker chips (white red and blue) they act as experience points, and as luck points (let you reroll thing, force others to reroll things, and absorb wounds). when you complete an important quest the GM is supposed to put in 1 new chip (we used gold) that is called a legend chip, and it is more powerful then the others... every game (I don't rember for sure if it is eveyr or only after an adventure) you draw random chips, and then the story teller gives more out as rewards mid play... all of that is like inspiration (turned up to 11)
However if you do dark things that raise the fear level of the weird west, you can get a black fate chip... if you draw it you loose it and one random other chip... but then it goes to the GM to use like it's a legend chip, but against the PCs...
having said that there are systems like it in other games. In Classic Deadlands there is a big pot of poker chips (white red and blue) they act as experience points, and as luck points (let you reroll thing, force others to reroll things, and absorb wounds). when you complete an important quest the GM is supposed to put in 1 new chip (we used gold) that is called a legend chip, and it is more powerful then the others... every game (I don't rember for sure if it is eveyr or only after an adventure) you draw random chips, and then the story teller gives more out as rewards mid play... all of that is like inspiration (turned up to 11)
However if you do dark things that raise the fear level of the weird west, you can get a black fate chip... if you draw it you loose it and one random other chip... but then it goes to the GM to use like it's a legend chip, but against the PCs...
GMforPowergamers
Legend
I disagree with punishment... players aren't your children (well inless they are
) if you don't like how they play sit down out of game and talk about...
A while ago I considered adding anti-inspiration for doing the opposite of Good RPing: not necessarily doing things outside of a character's normal code of conduct, but for habitual metagaming, breaking the 4th wall, and incessant pop culture references. Then I realized that that's just how some people play, and my role isn't to punish the players for doing what they think is fun... Unless it negatively impacts the group as a whole, but that's an entirely different discussion.
Perhaps instead of handing out a mechanical penalty, you could ask what reason the character would have for doing what they did. Sometimes LG gets frustrated, and thinks the CE way saves enough time and effort that it's sometimes worth it. Maybe the oath of the halfling only holds towards a certain type of dragon. Maybe the LE Warlock realizes that being seen to be a good person will earn them leniency at some point in the future when they start acting truly evil. Alignment is, at its best, a tool used to determine someone's general behaviours and outlook: people should probably react to PCs based on their actions, not two letters on their character sheet.
Perhaps instead of handing out a mechanical penalty, you could ask what reason the character would have for doing what they did. Sometimes LG gets frustrated, and thinks the CE way saves enough time and effort that it's sometimes worth it. Maybe the oath of the halfling only holds towards a certain type of dragon. Maybe the LE Warlock realizes that being seen to be a good person will earn them leniency at some point in the future when they start acting truly evil. Alignment is, at its best, a tool used to determine someone's general behaviours and outlook: people should probably react to PCs based on their actions, not two letters on their character sheet.
Those all fall into the area of a justification. I would have no problem with such things, and would love to see the characters being fleshed out like that. Also, I feel I should mention these were not actual occurences, just long shot examples of the kind of thing I might use it for.
SphereOfAnnihilation
First Post
Sorry but it's a terrible idea to implement. Characters by their actions incur consequences either good or bad. Punishing players is rotten. Would you like to be punished publically? Moreover it can reek of DM bullying. Forcing a way to play.
If they are so OOC maybe a discussion with the player would be better. Explain your concern, hear their side and work on a joint resolution.
If they are so OOC maybe a discussion with the player would be better. Explain your concern, hear their side and work on a joint resolution.
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