Any DM's not allowing Spiked Chains?

[Tetsubo]

LOL. Sorry, despite your insistence to the contrary, the way you actually describe them actually makes them sound very similar.

"They don't even slightly resemble each other. At all. See, one is a chain without spikes, and the other is a chain with spikes...."

I was discussing the chain LINKS themselves...

 

[Tetsubo]

You don't want to take the weapon pictures in the PHB too seriously. I mean, just look at the rapier....

If the PHB were the only image that showed them having spikes on the links themselves I might agree with you. But the illustrations of the weapon in use still show the chain links having spikes on them. Heck, one illustration even shows the users hands bleeding...

 

[Lord Zardoz]

The only problem I have with the spiked chain is that compared to other exotic weapons, it offers too much.

- It can be used in close OR at full reach.
- It gives bonuses to both Disarm and Trip

The other reach weapons cannot be used in close without the Short Haft feat from the PHB2. For Disarms, the Spiked Chain is at +6 (2 handed plus weapons bonus). You don't even need improved disarm, just do it from 10 feet away. And the other exotic weapons in the PHB are all either double weapons, or the Net or the Bolas. Double weapons are nice, but full use is fairly feat intensive. The Chain is not at all feat intensive, and unlike the Double weapons, you can get good use out the the feats that work well with the spiked chain when using other weapons. Imp Disarm, Imp Trip, and Combat Reflexes are all good to have with any weapon.

My biggest problem though is combining this weapon with Cleave / Great Cleave. Reach + Close is just too good. No other weapon gets to work both in close and at range at the same time. Even using Short Haft, you have to basically choose reach OR close once per round. A fighter with a solid Str score who takes Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, and Exotic Weapon Spiked Chain can mow down retarded numbers of Orcs / Goblins. Add in Combat Reflexes and they pretty much cannot touch him if he also has a half decent Dex. A human fighter can achieve this at Ftr 3. I still get good milage out of 1 HD opponents at those levels. Still, I just don't really know if there is a reasonable fix for that.

Would you throw an optimized 3rd level Fighter villian with the above feat combo against a CR apropiate party? I would be very hesitant to.

Compared to the other Exotic weapons in the PHB, the Spiked chain is just much better because it works so well with so many options.

I also find getting 1.5 Str bonus from a flexible weapon like the Spiked Chain to just be aesthetically displeasing.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Slaved]

The only problem I have with the spiked chain is that compared to other exotic weapons, it offers too much.

You could compare it with martial reach weapons instead

Would you throw an optimized 3rd level Fighter villian with the above feat combo against a CR apropiate party? I would be very hesitant to.

Color spray, ray of enfeeblement, tanglefoot bags, ranged weapons, tumble, etc. Looks tough but I am not seeing this as being insurmountable.

 

[wildstarsreach]

The only problem I have with the spiked chain is that compared to other exotic weapons, it offers too much.

- It can be used in close OR at full reach.
- It gives bonuses to both Disarm and Trip

The other reach weapons cannot be used in close without the Short Haft feat from the PHB2. For Disarms, the Spiked Chain is at +6 (2 handed plus weapons bonus). You don't even need improved disarm, just do it from 10 feet away. And the other exotic weapons in the PHB are all either double weapons, or the Net or the Bolas. Double weapons are nice, but full use is fairly feat intensive. The Chain is not at all feat intensive, and unlike the Double weapons, you can get good use out the the feats that work well with the spiked chain when using other weapons. Imp Disarm, Imp Trip, and Combat Reflexes are all good to have with any weapon.

My biggest problem though is combining this weapon with Cleave / Great Cleave. Reach + Close is just too good. No other weapon gets to work both in close and at range at the same time. Even using Short Haft, you have to basically choose reach OR close once per round. A fighter with a solid Str score who takes Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, and Exotic Weapon Spiked Chain can mow down retarded numbers of Orcs / Goblins. Add in Combat Reflexes and they pretty much cannot touch him if he also has a half decent Dex. A human fighter can achieve this at Ftr 3. I still get good milage out of 1 HD opponents at those levels. Still, I just don't really know if there is a reasonable fix for that.

Would you throw an optimized 3rd level Fighter villian with the above feat combo against a CR apropiate party? I would be very hesitant to.

Compared to the other Exotic weapons in the PHB, the Spiked chain is just much better because it works so well with so many options.

I also find getting 1.5 Str bonus from a flexible weapon like the Spiked Chain to just be aesthetically displeasing.

END COMMUNICATION

In this case, you are wrong.

The Kusari-gama gives you everything that a spiked chain does except marginally less damage. 1d4 blunt or 1d6 slashing. The spiked chain is by far superior only because it does 2d4 damage but hardly the only one with all of it's advatanges.

 

[Legildur]

My two biggest complaints about the spiked chain? That it is spiked (I'd have preferred a blunt weapon) and having to roll 2d4s for damage, I mean I HATE d4s.

 

[bestone]

In this case, you are wrong.

The Kusari-gama gives you everything that a spiked chain does except marginally less damage. 1d4 blunt or 1d6 slashing. The spiked chain is by far superior only because it does 2d4 damage but hardly the only one with all of it's advatanges.

But the kusari-gama is 1 handed!! and that right there is worth a lot

 

[wildstarsreach]

The Kawanaga is another weapon that falls into this catagory. It's damage is 1d3 slash/1d3 blunt.

 

[Nail]

A fighter with a solid Str score who takes Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, and Exotic Weapon Spiked Chain can mow down retarded numbers of Orcs / Goblins.

At level....6? How is that a problem?

 

[wildstarsreach]

But the kusari-gama is 1 handed!! and that right there is worth a lot

Kusari-gama: A kusari-gama is a length of chain with a kama at one end. It can be used either as a double weapon or asa reach weapon. You can fight with it as if fighting with two weapons, incurring all the normal attack penalties as if using a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. In this case, you can only strike at an adjacent opponent.
If you use the kusari-gama as a reach weapon, you can strike opponents 10 feet away with it. In addition, unlike other weapons with reach, you can use it against an adjacent foe. In this case, you can only use one end of the kusari-gama effectively; you cannot use it as a double weapon. You can choose which end of the kusari-gama to use. The kama end deals 1d6 points ofdamage and is a slashing weapon; the chain end deals
1d4 points of damage and is a bludgeoning weapon.
You can make trip attacks with a kusari-gama. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the kusari gama to avoid being tripped.
When using a kusari-gama, you get a +2 bonus on your opposed attack roll when attempting to disarm an opponent (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if you fail to disarm your opponent).
You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a kusari-gama.

The ability to use weapon finesse makes up for most of the damage loss. But I don't think it implies that you could use two kusari-gamas at range. I've seen this weapon used in martial arts exibitions and this would be impossible to effectively use two of them at range. That does not mean it can't be done but it would require that one individual that no one else can duplicate.