Any interest in a "Realistic" D20 rules set

Wow Ace, sounds like a really good idea to me! I'd love to have some viable rules for a lower-powered version of D&D and D20. How does your system handle a higher level character being attacked by a number of lower-level opponents? Is the higher level guy in trouble (I hope!), or is he pretty much sure to mop through the mooks? I like the idea of a more skills-focused game as well. Also, are hit points handled the same, or are they revised as well? Lastly, when and where might we get our hands on a copy of this? :)
 

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I would love to see it. Any chance you could send it to me to look over? I would treat it as though I was under an NDA if you wish. E-mail me.
 

Well, now that the cat is most definitely not in the bag, here's what I did to d20 combat to make it more realistic, if you're interested. I tried to avoid the pitfall of making it more complicated. Overall, there is a roughly equal number of rolls compared to straight D&D. Let's start with the basic assumptions:

1) Combat should be as dangerous to equally-skilled combatants at low levels as it is at high levels. Two first level fighters will take maybe two to five rounds, or about ten to thirty seconds, for one of them to drop. I don't mind if high-level combatants take longer to kill eachother, but it shouldn't take ten times as long as it does in stock D&D.

2) Instant death should almost always be possible for any combatant.

3) Armor, dexterity, and shield use all contribute to your ability to survive an attack in different ways. The rules ought to reflect this to better simulate reality so that heavy-armor types are simulated accurately as compared with very nimble low-armor individuals. (Ace, you and I disagree about this).

4) Your skill with a weapon should allow you to deal more damaging attacks in addition to being able to hit your opponent more often. Likewise, most of standard D&D's circumstance or terrain-based modifiers to hitting the enemy should directly affect how much damage is inflicted.

5) Skill with a melee weapon will automatically make the wielder more adept at avoiding attacks, whether by evasion or deflection.

6) Weapons fit into broad groups that are fundamentally similar in use and design, so that one's training will be cross-applicable to many different weapons.

Now, the fixes:

Instead of BAB, armor class, and damage rolls, there are a few skills that are used in d20 combat instead. Basically, combat works by attack rolls and defense rolls. The attacking character rolls a d20 skill roll. The defender 'takes a 10' on a defensive skill roll and subtracts it from the attack roll. A damage number is multiplied by the result (called the Margin of Success in some games). Instead of hit points, a character has a defined value, Toughness, that will show how much damage is required for different severities of wounds. Action penalties are assigned according to the number and severity of a character's wounds. Enough aggregrate damage will kill the character.

Damage = (attack roll - defense roll) * damage multiplier

If the Damage from an attack is less than zero, the attacker missed or was parried. If it is zero, the attacker 'tagged' the defender but did not cause damage because the blow was too soft.

Your attack roll looks like this:

d20 + weapon skill + str or dex bonus depending on weapon (swords and axes, str; bows and finessed rapiers, dex).

Your opponent makes a defense roll:

d20 + defensive skill + dex + shield bonus (if any. This is here because shields help you block things most of the time instead of absorbing damage like armor).

The defensive skill may be either a melee weapon skill or a new skill, dodge. If you dodge, you may have to take a 5' step or else be hit anyway (details on that to follow if there's interest).

The damage multiplier is figured thusly:
Take the average of the die code, round down, and add the character's strength bonus and any other applicable bonuses. (Example: a fighter with a str 14 and a longsword. The sword's d8 becomes a 4. Adding in the str bonus of +2 results in 6).

The Toughness of a character is where the armor comes in. Toughness T is equal to some constant (I believe I chose 5, Don't have my notes in front of me) plus his constitution bonus, plus any bonuses he purchased through feats (the Toughness feat is the way that fighters gain Super Roll With the Punches ability in my version). For math geeks, like this:

5 + con + armor bonus + shield bonus + bonuses from feats

Now that we know how tough the character is and we know how bad the hit was (from the margin of success of the attack * the damage multiplier of the attacker), we need to know the severity of the resulting injury. Basically, different multiples of Toughness (T, 2T, 4T, 8T, etc) define how much damage causes a Minor Wound, a Major Wound, a Mortal Wound, or an Instant Kill.

I haven't tweaked all the threshholds for the different wound levels or the penalties for them, or exactly when death will occur from multiple minor or major wounds yet. But, what I do know is that a mortal wound is equivalent to being at zero hit points (that is, only partial actions and strenuous activity produces a likely fatal unconsciousness), an instant kill is unrecoverable death (short of resurrection or perhaps magical healing that round), and that minor wounds will likely have a -1 penalty.

What do you think? I know it is still in the rough draft phase. There's a lot of hidden subtlety to how I chose the different rules. For example, note that a bonus or penalty on the attack or defense roll hit automatically affects the severity of the damage inflicted. This will make D&D's various to-hit bonuses more valuable, which I think they ought to be.

More of d20's original rules are there than you might think, too. The maximum dexterity bonus as defined by a type of armor still applies, but it will reduce the dex bonus to the defense roll instead of the armor class. Also, 'dodgy' characters can dodge very well (as we all know, most low-armor types get a high armor class in default D&D anyway from a higher dex and masterwork/otherwise special armor), but they pay a penalty vs. 'blocky' characters who can melee very well because their dodge skill may require them to take a 5' step to avoid the blow unless they dodge very well (the specifics of this mechanic are still in revision).

That's my contribution. I'll repost this in its own thread once I've made more revisions, or in this thread if it lives long enough.

-S
 

That last one is pretty cool, similar to mine with its differences. I like it more than stock DnD, that's for sure.

I am surprised that this hasn't been moved over to House Rules yet, since we are now posting our own customized systems.
 

I like your system shurai, it seems to flow well and is logical- kinda reminds me of Ars Magica in a lot of ways. I did have a couple questions though.

1. How does a creature's size affect its Toughness rating? What about Con- do you mean Con bonus or Con score?

2. How would you handle spell damage from say a lightning bolt that did 8d6 but that didn't require an attack roll?

3. You do realize that True Strike is going to become a one-shot-kill spell for many creatures. I'd raise its level to at least 3rd.

4. How do the different Toughness levels break down as far as healing? ie- what is required to heal each level of wound, and are there any penalties associated with each wound state?
 

KDLadage said:
I would love to see it. Any chance you could send it to me to look over? I would treat it as though I was under an NDA if you wish. E-mail me.

It isn't quite ready yet. I have to finsih up an article on Spellbooks I am going to peddle to D20 Weekly first .
In a week or so I can add some more char gen stuff to my rough draft.
I would be glad to send it out when its ready.

If my work is good enough I would like to offer it as a PDF download for about $5-8 US. After a good test and run through I wills ee what I can do.

As to the second Classless/levelless version I have a long long way to go on that.
 

Gothmog said:
Wow Ace, sounds like a really good idea to me! I'd love to have some viable rules for a lower-powered version of D&D and D20. How does your system handle a higher level character being attacked by a number of lower-level opponents? Is the higher level guy in trouble (I hope!), or is he pretty much sure to mop through the mooks? I like the idea of a more skills-focused game as well. Also, are hit points handled the same, or are they revised as well? Lastly, when and where might we get our hands on a copy of this? :)

OK
If A higher level guy gets swamped his defenses are reduced by the fact that the mooks have an attack bonus
Also even if he has multiple attacks available they are usually less effective.
+11/+6/+1 is less good if your opponents defenses are higher (and they will be automatically) and canny foes can defend better too.

Also the hitpoint ratios are much much closer. Rather than having 10x the number of HP you may have 2x max

Now there still are cleave and all that cool stuff but it can be harder to drop foes in armor and if they don't drop, no extra attacks.

As for a copy, I hope my first draft will be ready in two or three weeks but thats way up in the air. Absolutely no promises
 
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